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  1. #1
    Dr. Chim Richalds A.M.G.'s Avatar
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    Default Let's talk about the future

    So, this season the East is historically terrible, and the Raptors are somehow one of the only teams showing cohesion and drive. This is something of a mixed blessing, as has been griped about ad nauseum by Raptors fans. We thought we'd be shit terrible again and have a strong shot at Wiggins or one of the other half dozen studs likely to enter the draft in 2014.

    It's all smiles und sunshine right now with the team winning and extremely likely to make the playoffs, DeMar potentially getting an All-Star nod. Hooray! But let's be real, this is only happening because the East is effing unbelievably awful, next season more teams will presumably have their shit together. So to remain competitive, the Raptors have a few key choices:

    A) What to do with Kyle Lowry?
    B) Who to draft in the 15-22 range?
    C) Amir and Salmons are both team options for $7 mill.
    D) Pat-Pat's qualifying offer is $4.3 mill, Vasquez's is $3.2 mill.
    E) Free agent signing(s).

    I would like to hear what people think we should do/will happen.

    A) Lowry is going to be asking for $10 million. I don't think he's worth that. He's playing well in a contract year and we're winning in a fluke-ishly bad East, but I can see him becoming a ball-dominant chucker again when he gets his eight-figure-per-year deal that lasts until he's 32. Unfortunately we also probably aren't going to trade him before the season's over either, because management will want to win a playoff series. So umm, basically what I'm saying is we're probably going to let him walk for nothing/basically nothing or give him a bad contract. Who knows, maybe he'll be worth the $10 mill per?

    B) I know the season is only like a third over, but realistically, we're not going to be in the lottery this year (if trading Gay was a tanking move, it backfired Masai!). We don't have anything to trade to let us move up into the lottery, and no one was likely to trade out of the lottery in a draft this strong anyways. But damn it, we still have our first round pick this year! There will be prospects around! Prospects like Glenn Robinson III, Willie Cauley-Stein, the Harrison twins, Oliver Hanlan, Mitch McGary, James Michael McAdoo, Jerami Grant, T.J. Warren, Montrezl Harrell, maybe even Aaron Gordon could still be around. We could maybe get Tyler Ennis, a kind of consolation prize Canadian prospect for not getting Wiggins? Who knows who'll still be available, it's too early really to predict, but there's enough talent in this class that we should still get someone solid. The most important thing is that we should not be drafting to fill a position. BPA. Of the players I mentioned I favour Gordon, Cauley-Stein, Grant, and Ennis, but realistically they will rise on draft boards.

    C) I say keep Amir and let Salmons walk, maybe that's obvious.

    D) Keep both, Pat-Pat for $5 mill per, maybe a little more, Vasquez for no more than $4 mill per? Unrealistic?

    E) Let's look at our options for a FA signing at PG if we let Lowry walk.
    Basically the best options are Darren Collison, Jameer Nelson, Aaron Brooks, Isaiah Thomas, and Patty Mills. Am I crazy if I mention Jordan Farmar? So yeah, not a whole lot. Spurs keep Tony Parker obviously, Suns keep Eric Bledsoe, Celtics keep Avery Bradley.

    Soooo, let's say we keep Lowry. He's our franchise PG for 4-5 years.

    I've looked at the list of free agents and there's not a whole lot of options really. Later I'll post some ideas for who we might sign. Honestly though it really does look like in two years, looking back, a winning season with us getting home court advantage in the playoffs and DeRozan being an All-Star is going to look like the worst thing that ever happened to us, lol. Is that like the definition of irony or something?
    Last edited by A.M.G.; 01-09-2014 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Local High School Star barkleynash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Nice post. I've been thinking about a lot of the same questions.
    I don't think there is a huge market out there for Lowry. The lakers are the one team that could prob. Trump the raps for Lowry. No idea if lakers want him, but seems realistic. I'd offer 4 four year extension at 34 mill, 8.5 per. If he turns it down you trade him.
    If he resigns I like Vazquez back and Tyler ennis as our draft pick.
    Great depth and the ability to trade any of the three.
    Salmons has to be gone, for financial purposes.
    Wing is derozen Ross and fields and a free agent pickup, maybe on a one year deal.

    I think trading novac and second rounder to Portland for Myers Leonard gives us the backup centre we need.

    Roster would be,
    Lowry, Vazquez, ennis
    Derozen, free agent signee (Can play a two point guard lineup) to fill some minutes at two.
    Ross fields
    Amir, pat/hansbrough
    Val, Hayes/Leonard
    I think you can play Amir and Patterson together at the forward spots for 8-10 min. Per game. They have both shown the ability, especially Amir, to guard the three spot in short spurts. Patterson acts as the three on offence.

    Let Hayes and fields expire and buy out hansbrough to create the cap space for summer of 2015.

    I like Hayes and fields, great leadership on the end of the bench. Contracts suck, but high character guys. Could be worse, you could have guys like Charlie v on your bench getting paid 8 mill. I'd take fields any day.

  3. #3
    No props needed kmart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    If they should not be able to resign Lowry soon, I think Masai will still trade him considering what happened in Denver with the Nuggets. If they do it'll probably be something similar to Derozan's contract (maybe one less year).

    Amir is obviously extended, as he has been excellent for us.

    Qualify Patty and Grevis. Good chance we will keep them.

    Decline the option on Salmons and keep Hayes because of the guranteed contract.

    As far as the pick goes, I say choose the guy with the most potential. Maybe Selden, Glen Robinson, or James Young.

    Keep building, and hopefully we find a gem in the middle of the draft similar to Indiana.
    Last edited by kmart; 01-09-2014 at 11:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Local High School Star barkleynash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    I would say you take the best player available, and hope he outplays his contract. This team will go as far as Ross, Val and derozen improve. If two of them become perennial allstars you are probably going to stay in the upper echelon of the east. Lowry and Amir are much closer to their peaks than the other three, but have great heart and leadership. If this team could become a perennial fifty win team then you have a great shot in summer of 2015 or 16 to get a major free agent. A millsap/David west type of signing to help put you over the top. They have to draft well, develop their players and get a little luck along the way.

  5. #5
    No props needed kmart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    This team's core is still too weak. It is evident when we play teams like the Pacers and the Heat. Val will improve his game, but Ross and Derozan will just make minor tweaks to their game and will likely stay the way they are. You've got to draft the guy with the highest potential to build on what you have.

    The Raps still need another all-star/superstar. They need someone like a Paul George. Middle of the round pick, but has a ton of potential.

  6. #6
    Serious playground baller DJMason's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by kmart
    This team's core is still too weak. It is evident when we play teams like the Pacers and the Heat. Val will improve his game, but Ross and Derozan will just make minor tweaks to their game and will likely stay the way they are. You've got to draft the guy with the highest potential to build on what you have.

    The Raps still need another all-star/superstar. They need someone like a Paul George. Middle of the round pick, but has a ton of potential.
    While I agree that the core needs more tal.ent, citing how we played against the two best teams in the NBA with all their players in their prime as the benchmark for a squad with two of the three core pieces you listed being sophmores is a bit unfair. Also Ross is more likely to have untapped potential than Derozan. Just compare the two in their second years and I'd say Ross is actually ahead of Derozan's curve. Now by all accounts he doesn't seem to have the same work ethic so we'll see how much of that tallent he taps into.

    That said, Masai has found later first round and second round gems before and I don't doubt he can do it again. Also, we have cap room going forward and our pieces will all be more valuable on the trade market with some playoff experience and not having albatross contracts around their necks. No reason we can't get the tallent we need without tanking.

  7. #7
    No props needed kmart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by DJMason
    While I agree that the core needs more tal.ent, citing how we played against the two best teams in the NBA with all their players in their prime as the benchmark for a squad with two of the three core pieces you listed being sophmores is a bit unfair. Also Ross is more likely to have untapped potential than Derozan. Just compare the two in their second years and I'd say Ross is actually ahead of Derozan's curve. Now by all accounts he doesn't seem to have the same work ethic so we'll see how much of that tallent he taps into.

    That said, Masai has found later first round and second round gems before and I don't doubt he can do it again. Also, we have cap room going forward and our pieces will all be more valuable on the trade market with some playoff experience and not having albatross contracts around their necks. No reason we can't get the tallent we need without tanking.
    We could compare their second seasons, but Ross is already turning 23 very soon. Seldom do we see players improve dramatically after that age, so to me he is what he is with a few tweaks to his game. Of course with more minutes he will get more numbers. I'm just hoping he improves consistency (which we are seeing more of) and solid defence.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    a) KLow will resign @ $10Million + per year or at least there is a good chance. That is the market price. Ultimately what I dont know is if Klow is "Toronto adverse" and will take any deal to get out of here.As said elsewhere its Derozan + vet premium money - up to Iggy money ($12Mill) .... I think we have to pay it.


    b) Raps draft a PG if Klow leaves. They draft a small forward/ shooting guard to back up Derozan/Salmons if Klow stays.

    The bigs are set: 1) Val 2) Amir 3) Big P 4) Cedric 5) Tyler.

    Draft may not be 15 + range. It could be higher if MU can trade up from mutliple picks over 3 years.

    c) Amir optioned for good citizenship. Amir may sign for slightly less per year and longer term. Salmons is likely optioned as well unless he signs for slightly less and longer term. Both Salmons and Amir may want 3 years security.

    Amir is obviously not Toronto adverse. Salmons ? unsure.

    d) Big P is qualified as Amir's backup and eventual replacement. He also allows us to cut trade TylerH next season. He has shown a willingness to grow/improve here with the chance to play.

    Vasq is qualified. He is insurance if Klow wont sign and still represents quality punch off the bench. We likely have the best 1-2 PG tandem in the east right now... its at least argueable. It alot like the old days with Jose / JT combo.


    e) Ross moves and so does Landry Fields. Both represent value to some teams out there be it 1) young and inexpensive with shooting accuracy or 2) expiring contract at needed position.

    In either case those moves are to free up cap space for KLow's numbers and cap flexability. They wont take back a talent and contract unless its expiring.

    I dont see much in the way of free agent signings.

    MU committed to TSN2 radio to build with what we have ; given his modus operandi in Denver he was happy to let Melo and Nene leave. He did take back Iggy admittedly but Iggy may have been a rental or a planned risk.
    Last edited by Jballer; 01-10-2014 at 01:18 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by A.M.G.
    I've looked at the list of free agents and there's not a whole lot of options really. Later I'll post some ideas for who we might sign. Honestly though it really does look like in two years, looking back, a winning season with us getting home court advantage in the playoffs and DeRozan being an All-Star is going to look like the worst thing that ever happened to us, lol. Is that like the definition of irony or something?
    There is only 2 guys as a FA that I could see this team chasing.

    KLove ( as an expiring contract in 2016 - wanting out )

    Its the type of player I think MU might chase if possible. Again I point to the Denver time where he let Melo Nene leave but was willing to get in on Iggy.

    So who is the 2nd guy ?

    Ironically CB4 or CB0 or just plain old CB. Chris Bosh.

    I assume CB "if he leaves Miami" will opt for a Texas team ; but I could see tha Raps make an offer.
    Last edited by Jballer; 01-10-2014 at 01:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    With his team leading the Atlantic Division thanks to an 11-5 record since the Rudy Gay deal, Masai Ujiri said he's been encouraged by his team's play and will look to continue to support his core talent. Speaking on TSN 1050 Thursday afternoon, the Raptors GM emphasized his commitment to building on the current roster: “I always say, ‘you can't teach winning by losing,' so we're going to keep encouraging these guys as much as we can.”

    http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=440780


    I'm beginning to lose faith in Ujiri. We are VERY MUCH caught in the dreaded "middle" that he referenced weeks back, playing 500 ball in a shit conference. He earned a lot of fame for a Nuggets team that is now shit and without direction. The 2014 draft was the thing I was looking forward to the most...
    Last edited by Prodigy; 01-14-2014 at 05:58 PM.

  11. #11
    No props needed kmart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    [QUOTE=Prodigy]With his team leading the Atlantic Division thanks to an 11-5 record since the Rudy Gay deal, Masai Ujiri said he's been encouraged by his team's play and will look to continue to support his core talent. Speaking on TSN 1050 Thursday afternoon, the Raptors GM emphasized his commitment to building on the current roster:

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by kmart
    3rd place isn't too middling. I mean give this team some time. They're actually still young (DeRozan 24, Ross 23, Val 22).
    I agree.

    I wonder what Q has to say...

    This is no shot at anyone... but the tank voices have disappeared and frankly that includes me at least partially. I guess winning and mental toughness have a way of making the demons leave the room as a fan.

    I think there is still a point to be made...that instead of signing a FA.. we should be asking MU and MLSE Management to try to move up in the draft. For example I dont think Klove or CB would come here.

    The young core Derozan / Ross / Val and I will add Vasquez and Big P to the puzzle look like a solid solid nucleus but we are still missing the "potential" of Wiggens or some other game changer.... which is part luck and part skill in the draft.

    Ross might be needed to make such a move up in the draft class and I would not begrudge management for pulling that trigger... especially if we end up "needing a star PG" because KLow leaves.

  13. #13
    Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    It looks like the Raptors are going to stand pat the rest of this year so there just isn't anything to talk about future-wise. That will all be decided in the offseason. It's tough to speculate about anything since it doesn't seem like any other major piece will be traded during the season and there's no top draft pick to look forward to.

    Will they re-sign Lowry? I'm sure they'll try because it would be a PR disaster (in terms of the casual fanbase) to lose the team's best player after a surprising year. A contract probably starts at around $9-10 million per year. The Lakers will probably be the Raptors main competition but they might be saving their money for bigger fish.

    The draft isn't really worth talking about since the Raptors won't be in the lottery. Who knows who will be available in the 16-22 range. I'm sure the Raptors will try to trade up but I just don't see that happening unless another team is absolutely in love with Derozan and we see a Demar + Raptors 1st rounder for top 10 pick kind of deal. And that would be hard to sell to the casual fans as well. It's a fine balancing act between maintaining revenue and interest and taking risks and trying to build a serious winner.

    You keep guys like Vasquez and Patterson if they're cheap. Let them go otherwise. Both can be solid rotation players but nothing more, IMO. You obviously let Salmons go.

    Right now, the Raptors future to becoming a legit contender depends on internal growth in Valanciunas (who I like and believe in) and Ross (who I am not a fan of). Whether the ownership even cares about that is another thing. What I'm worried about is signging Lowry and Amir to big extensions and being locked in with this core. The overconfidence in the current roster has happened twice in Raptors history. The JYD, Alvin and AD extensions with Vince. The Colangelo post division title years with Bosh. Both times the Raptors failed to surround a top talent with anything decent. Except this time there isn't any one as good as Vince or Bosh.
    Last edited by Qwyjibo; 01-15-2014 at 04:20 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by kmart
    3rd place isn't too middling. I mean give this team some time. They're actually still young (DeRozan 24, Ross 23, Val 22).
    Lettuce be for real. The Eastern Conference is historically bad this year. If this was any other year, we'd probably be the 5-6th seed.

  15. #15
    No props needed kmart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk about the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy
    Lettuce be for real. The Eastern Conference is historically bad this year. If this was any other year, we'd probably be the 5-6th seed.
    Eh they are young and in 3rd. Don't think we can complain.

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