Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Chicago Bulls Forum

Chicago Bulls Forum Chicago Bulls message board - chicago bulls fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-04-2010, 06:54 PM   #76
Rose
The cat's pajamas
 
Rose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 29,014
Rose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Dude
1. The one of the major advantages of using zone defenses is to cut down on penetration.
read the link below so you can understand.
http://www.basketballsbest.com/artic...icsZoneDef.htm
unless basketball coaches all around the world, professional and college don't have a brain like me.
2. So you want to simply put in Korver if the other teams sag down and everything would be alright, right?
Can you use your brain for a minute and find the rationale of why Korver's CAREER ave mins have NEVER been MORE THAN 26 mins per game?
Kyle Korver the super shooter/zone-sag down buster didn't even start ONE FREAKING GAME in 2007. One game started before that year.
YOu want to know why he never got more than 6 mil/year and not 10 mil?
could it be bec he sucks on defense, bad handles, bad rebounding etc?
Rose (the poster)has been putting up FACTS/links,
I threw in a link myself and also provided FACTS/STATS, oh my bad, we don't have a brain, its only you and ljsbb who are smart enough to understand basketball, it's you the great basketball mind versus us imbeciles

Repped!
Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 07:24 PM   #77
tamaraw08
Decent college freshman
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,502
tamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwax26
It may have held them to less at the time the zone was run for a little but overall since they couldnt run it the whole game the Lakers werent stifled. If it was that effective they would have run it the whole game. Being stifled is scoring less than what u normally do. The lakers never put up 110+ppg during the regular season or even in their other playoff series. You are bouncing around cause u talke about each different lakers skill set then you talk about each lakers slashing ability. The overall point is whether or not the bulls can be effective against the zone not dissecting each players basketball abilities and then comparing the bulls to the lakers. You have always been down with me cause a lot of what u say just doesnt make sense from a Bball standpoint. Kids with ADD cant stay focused on one thing for too long and that perfectly describes you. When you learn to stay on topic and focus then we can have a serious debate until then Im done going back and forth with you cause its a waste of my time.

If im not mistaken, you have mentioned the stat about the Lakers averaging 110 pts , so there's no way they were stifled, right?
gee, my brain....ooops i forgot, I don't have one, my kidney told me to dig in other facts/stats.
Phoenix employs a much FASTER pace of basketball, that's their main strenght, push the ball, get into rhythim, take chances, as a result
Lakers had MORE FG attempts/game than USUAL!
Game 1, 88 shots
game 2, 78 shots
game 3, 87 shots
game 4, 5, 91 shots
game 6, 83 shots for an average of 86.33 ATTEMPTS!
Then compare the shot attempts vs the Celtics who walks up the ball
game 1, 76 shots
game 2, 71, shots
game 3, 76 shots
game 4, 71 shots
game 5 78 shots,
game 6, 79 shots
game 7, 83 shots. for an average of 76 shots/game
Oh why did Alvin Gentry use the zone defense vs the Lakers?
Maybe because individually they would be killed by Lakers talented team?
Nash, Amare, JRich etc are weak individual defenders and yet, they stretched the vaunted Lakers team to 6 games, you compare them side by side with the Jazz, Boozer, better defender than Amare.
Willaims, better than Nash etc etc, yet the Lakers SWEPT the Jazz.
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 07:43 PM   #78
tamaraw08
Decent college freshman
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,502
tamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsbb27
We signed Kyle Korver (One of the best 3-point shooters in the league).

Derrick Rose said he worked on his outside shot and it's gotten to the point where its a shot he can hit consistently (I believe him).

Luol Deng has range until just inside the 3-point line and im sure he's worked on his shot from out there this offseason.

It's not as simple and clear cut as your trying to make it. No where near it actually.

They can't sag down as much as your trying to imply. They can't sag all the way down into the lane. If they do then Rose, Deng, and Brewer will kill them with their highly effective mid-range game.

When they get the ball down to Boozer he's going to be doubled and will be able to pass out for open mid-range jumpers.

Rose will find his way into the lane and kick out for open midrange jumpers.

Not everything has to be a 3-point shot.

We'll be fine.

This team is much better than last year's team and it amazes me how people don't see that and are still complaining about players who are no longer here. Appreciate what they did for the organization (those who deserve such respect - Hinrich) but move on and support our new players.

We're an improved team and it will show. Be patient and supportive.

If you read my post again, I said, defenders will sag down upto the area where Bulls players can hit their shots, as in Dengs defender would sag up to 18 feet etc, its not like all of the defenders will camp out in the shaded area.
If God forbid, Deng starts to miss some of those 17-footers, his defender can sag even more.
Noah for his career has NEVER been a decent 15- foot shooter, so his defender can rove around hand help. Same with Brewer whose defender would only extend upto where he is capable of sticking a jumper.
YOu mentioned Korver, I wish he has worked on his weaknesses bec there are legit reasons why he has NOT logged in heavy mins in his CAREER!
Forgive me to bring up the fact, again about how top teams have opened the wallets to pay shooters bec a 3 pt shooter is like a panacea for sagging types of defenses. Boston is paying the aging Allen 10 mil per year, Orlando has Carter and yet gulped down and matched the Bulls offer of 20 mil/3 yrs for Reddick etc etc
Not a few have constantly posted about how much they would love the Bulls to sign Mason, i've lost tracked already if that included you.
Do I think the Bulls has a stronger lineup compared to last year's?
Well, yes, but I think they could have been a lot better had they acquired a legit shooter.

YOu said they would be "FINE", well, I know that, but as a Bulls fan, I want them to be AWESOME, not just fine. Miami didn't sleep after they signed the big 3, they also got Haslem, Mike Miller, House etc.
Lakers scooped in Blake, Barnes, Ratliff instead of resting on their laurels.
etc etc.
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2010, 08:01 PM   #79
Rose
The cat's pajamas
 
Rose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 29,014
Rose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

I really think we can contend this year against the Heat, before they really load their bench up in the next couple years, if the CBA doesn't change drastically like a lot of people think they will. I'd really offer the Blazers some major cash, a first round pick and james johnson for rudy and patty mills. Both are good shooters, and I do believe that matches up perfectly. I mean even give up two firsts. just to get it done. This is THE year for the Bulls to sneak up on teams. everyone's like Lakers! Heat! Celtics.....Magic! and then that's all everyone talks about, if these Bulls click they can challenge them.but they need a legit shooter or two.
Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 01:01 AM   #80
Crazy Style
Bulls official mod
 
Crazy Style's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago's Nearwest Suburbs
Posts: 1,880
Crazy Style has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Memphis still hasn't settled on a contract with Xavier Henry, so maybe the Bulls could snatch him for a first round pick if they're lucky. Would be a nice piece and just the kind of player we need. Then the team could sign one or two players to fill out the roster.

Rose/Watson
Brewer/Henry
Deng/Korver/Johnson
Boozer/Gibson/Thomas
Noah/Asik

Now that would be a solid group.

Last edited by Crazy Style : 08-05-2010 at 01:10 AM.
Crazy Style is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 09:01 AM   #81
drwax26
High School Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 832
drwax26 has decent reputationdrwax26 has decent reputation
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
If im not mistaken, you have mentioned the stat about the Lakers averaging 110 pts , so there's no way they were stifled, right?
gee, my brain....ooops i forgot, I don't have one, my kidney told me to dig in other facts/stats.
Phoenix employs a much FASTER pace of basketball, that's their main strenght, push the ball, get into rhythim, take chances, as a result
Lakers had MORE FG attempts/game than USUAL!
Game 1, 88 shots
game 2, 78 shots
game 3, 87 shots
game 4, 5, 91 shots
game 6, 83 shots for an average of 86.33 ATTEMPTS!
Then compare the shot attempts vs the Celtics who walks up the ball
game 1, 76 shots
game 2, 71, shots
game 3, 76 shots
game 4, 71 shots
game 5 78 shots,
game 6, 79 shots
game 7, 83 shots. for an average of 76 shots/game
Oh why did Alvin Gentry use the zone defense vs the Lakers?
Maybe because individually they would be killed by Lakers talented team?
Nash, Amare, JRich etc are weak individual defenders and yet, they stretched the vaunted Lakers team to 6 games, you compare them side by side with the Jazz, Boozer, better defender than Amare.
Willaims, better than Nash etc etc, yet the Lakers SWEPT the Jazz.

We all know phoenix has a break neck style which attributes to more possessions thanks for pointing out the obvious. Through your own little high school girl rant you still didnt explain how the lakers were STIFLED you retard. All you said is why they used a zone defense and the weaknesses of the Phoenix defenders. Thanks for talking a whole lot of nothing go jump off the Sears Tower unless you have reasons on how the Lakers were stifled. Your post failed just like all your other ones...
drwax26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 06:24 PM   #82
ljsbb27
Local High School Star
 
ljsbb27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,171
ljsbb27 is a pretty well-respected posterljsbb27 is a pretty well-respected posterljsbb27 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
If you read my post again, I said, defenders will sag down upto the area where Bulls players can hit their shots, as in Dengs defender would sag up to 18 feet etc, its not like all of the defenders will camp out in the shaded area.
If God forbid, Deng starts to miss some of those 17-footers, his defender can sag even more.
Noah for his career has NEVER been a decent 15- foot shooter, so his defender can rove around hand help. Same with Brewer whose defender would only extend upto where he is capable of sticking a jumper.
YOu mentioned Korver, I wish he has worked on his weaknesses bec there are legit reasons why he has NOT logged in heavy mins in his CAREER!
Forgive me to bring up the fact, again about how top teams have opened the wallets to pay shooters bec a 3 pt shooter is like a panacea for sagging types of defenses. Boston is paying the aging Allen 10 mil per year, Orlando has Carter and yet gulped down and matched the Bulls offer of 20 mil/3 yrs for Reddick etc etc
Not a few have constantly posted about how much they would love the Bulls to sign Mason, i've lost tracked already if that included you.
Do I think the Bulls has a stronger lineup compared to last year's?
Well, yes, but I think they could have been a lot better had they acquired a legit shooter.

YOu said they would be "FINE", well, I know that, but as a Bulls fan, I want them to be AWESOME, not just fine. Miami didn't sleep after they signed the big 3, they also got Haslem, Mike Miller, House etc.
Lakers scooped in Blake, Barnes, Ratliff instead of resting on their laurels.
etc etc.

Ok here we go. There isn't one clear cut solution to the problems we're going to face as a team. If it was that easy then it would be obvious to us as well as to management. This isn't a matter of me being right and you being wrong. I have my opinion and you have yours. I read other poster's stuff on here and try to understand what they're saying then I reply with my point of view. That is all. Now if I feel like if someone is completely wrong than I will point it out to them, but I think that I've rarely done that.

I understand that good teams have 3-point shooters, but its not an absolute necessity that you have to have multiple knock down 3-point shooters to be a championship contender. One yes. Two maybe. The Lakers won the championship and who did they have that shot the 3 ball? Fisher is probably their best and he's not that great. Kobe and Artest are average and streaky from behind there. Who were the best 3 point shooting teams in the league last year? 1. Suns 2. Cavs 3. Magic...

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...ntFieldGoalPct

Where did that get them? The need for 3-point shooting is overrated in my opinion. The effectiveness of zone defense is also overrated in my opinion. Theres a reason why teams only use it in short instances and only a minority of teams really use it considerably. Good defensive teams play man to man defense. Teams that have bad defenders try to mask it by playing zone, but eventually they have to get off that because teams figure out the zone. Can it mess them up for some time? Sure. Just like any other defensive scheme. It's not rock solid by any means. It has its weaknesses. The most apparent way to break the zone is outside shooting but that's not the only answer.

The Bulls will have other ways to counter against teams that are going to throw the zone defense at them. Thibs knows this is coming and he will have schemes ready to combat it.

The same link you included had the zone defense's weaknesses.

I said I would welcome Roger Mason or any other shooter. Why wouldn't I? A team can never have too many shooters, but I just don't think it restricts our Bulls from having a successful season if we can't grab one.

In no way shape or form was I being complacent or settling by saying " We'll be fine." I always want what's best for the team and that should be apparent to anybody who reads my posts. There's just times to criticize and times to be supportive and realize the good that has been done. This roster has been vastly improved.

My prediction is 3 or 4 seed. 2nd round or ECF. But that's just me.
ljsbb27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 08:30 PM   #83
tamaraw08
Decent college freshman
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,502
tamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsbb27
Ok here we go. There isn't one clear cut solution to the problems we're going to face as a team. If it was that easy then it would be obvious to us as well as to management. This isn't a matter of me being right and you being wrong. I have my opinion and you have yours. I read other poster's stuff on here and try to understand what they're saying then I reply with my point of view. That is all. Now if I feel like if someone is completely wrong than I will point it out to them, but I think that I've rarely done that.

I understand that good teams have 3-point shooters, but its not an absolute necessity that you have to have multiple knock down 3-point shooters to be a championship contender. One yes. Two maybe. The Lakers won the championship and who did they have that shot the 3 ball? Fisher is probably their best and he's not that great. Kobe and Artest are average and streaky from behind there. Who were the best 3 point shooting teams in the league last year? 1. Suns 2. Cavs 3. Magic...

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...ntFieldGoalPct

Where did that get them? The need for 3-point shooting is overrated in my opinion. The effectiveness of zone defense is also overrated in my opinion. Theres a reason why teams only use it in short instances and only a minority of teams really use it considerably. Good defensive teams play man to man defense. Teams that have bad defenders try to mask it by playing zone, but eventually they have to get off that because teams figure out the zone. Can it mess them up for some time? Sure. Just like any other defensive scheme. It's not rock solid by any means. It has its weaknesses. The most apparent way to break the zone is outside shooting but that's not the only answer.

The Bulls will have other ways to counter against teams that are going to throw the zone defense at them. Thibs knows this is coming and he will have schemes ready to combat it.

The same link you included had the zone defense's weaknesses.

I said I would welcome Roger Mason or any other shooter. Why wouldn't I? A team can never have too many shooters, but I just don't think it restricts our Bulls from having a successful season if we can't grab one.

In no way shape or form was I being complacent or settling by saying " We'll be fine." I always want what's best for the team and that should be apparent to anybody who reads my posts. There's just times to criticize and times to be supportive and realize the good that has been done. This roster has been vastly improved.

My prediction is 3 or 4 seed. 2nd round or ECF. But that's just me.

If Fisher shoots 23.4%(in the past) like Brewer esp in the playoffs, I guarantee you, Lakers wouldn't have re-signed him. You mentioned Artest (career 34.4%), yes, he struggled in the last playoffs but he kept shooting and boy, when he made those shots esp vs Phoenix and game 6,7 vs Boston, it sure gave them a lift didn't he?
BTW, who said the Bulls need MULTIPLE shooters?bec I DIDN'T!
I said they need atleast ONE SG("shooting" guard) that actually can SHOOT!, right now they have Korver who is a natural SF and CJ Watson who is a pg. Quite frankly, I am having trouble finding an NBA team whose pg and SG have a 3pt shooting ave BELOW 24%(Rose) and 23.4%(Brewer), can you?
Utah got away with Brewer playing bec their center Mahmet Okur drew out his defender bec of his abiity to shoot the 3, yet they traded him and didn't miss Brewer. Memphis acquired him and minimized his pt to 16 mins where he averaged 2 pts/game, then they let him go.
YOu kept mentioning zone defenses, if you read my post again, I said, it's an option that opposing teams might use vs the Bulls, I also included sagging man to man defenses. While it is TRUE that only a handful of teams use zone defenses the main reason is MAJORITY of the teams have legit shooting guards and SFs who can shoot, even Toronto, Indiana and the Clippers have them! And for the record, Im not saying these teams are better than the Bulls, im just implying its harder to sag in and use the zone vs these teams.
The most ironic part of all this is that I agree with most of your views, heck, I can definitely see them being the 4th seed but it is just my opinion that IF they secure a LEGIT shooting guard who can play decent defense, that they can battle Miami and Boston for the top 2 spot. This debate has been a bit intense but I just want to salute you for maintaining your composure and showing class by not resorting to name calling and dishing out insults.
unlike other posters.
Most, if not all,here respect your opinions and insights, let me just say it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

Last edited by tamaraw08 : 08-05-2010 at 10:10 PM.
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 08:38 PM   #84
tamaraw08
Decent college freshman
 
tamaraw08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,502
tamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops postertamaraw08 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwax26
We all know phoenix has a break neck style which attributes to more possessions thanks for pointing out the obvious. Through your own little high school girl rant you still didnt explain how the lakers were STIFLED you retard. All you said is why they used a zone defense and the weaknesses of the Phoenix defenders. Thanks for talking a whole lot of nothing go jump off the Sears Tower unless you have reasons on how the Lakers were stifled. Your post failed just like all your other ones...

I have provided facts/stats in most of my replies to you to back up my opinions and you have resorted to name calling and insults.
It just shows your true character as a person. It would have been so easy to stoop down to your level and call you names and insult you but I choose not to. I have nothing else to say to you re: this topic.

Last edited by tamaraw08 : 08-05-2010 at 09:59 PM.
tamaraw08 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy