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Old 09-01-2006, 11:38 PM   #1
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Default ISH Debate Tourney- Round 1: Pistol Pete vs. RidonKs

These two are debating whether or not the newly implimented age limit will improve the NBA.

Side debating it will improve the NBA
The National Basketball Association will reap the benefits of David Stern’s decision to implement an age limit at 19 years old. Players, following one year of post secondary, will dramatically improve in maturity as a player and human being. They will be setup with the chance of earning a degree or diploma, something crucial in order to fall back on should their attempt at professional basketball fail. Even if their attempt at basketball is a success, the knowledge and experiences gained through college or university is invaluable, something that every person, and National Basketball Franchise can benefit from.

Scouts from the National Basketball Association will have an easier time to see players who have physically and mentally matured, and who are now ready for the professional game. As a result, the professional league will improve; we will no longer watch an 18 year old, poorly developed physically and lacking experience, struggling against mature men who understand the intricate details of the game. As fans, we will now be rewarded watching players whom have proven themselves on a higher playing level then punishing inferior opponents at the high school level, we won’t have to hear our executives constantly spouting about a players unproven potential. We will now see players who have proven themselves worthy of the professional game, more physically mature and mentally ready.

The game as a whole will benefit from the change; the quality of play will rise, not only in the National Basketball Association, but all in NCAA College Basketball where players who were outstanding high school players will now be experiencing NCAA Basketball and March Madness. The game will be played better, and will be full of more talent. As an outsider, it is clear to see that it’s in everyone’s best interest to implement an age limit, players are forced to get a great education, and teams get a better judge of actual talent, fans are rewarded with excellent, talented individuals whom have earned the right to grace the court with their presence.


Side debating it won't imrpove the NBA
Okay, so I'm supposed to argue that the new Age Limit that's been proposed by Stern will not improve the skill level of the current NBA player.

Now looking at this issue, many people will believe that it is impossible to say that the talent in the NBA WON'T get better, because with the new age restriction, the league would be older. This however, is false.

First, let's look at the players who DID come into the league young, and who did extremely well. You have Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, and Jermaine O'neal. All excellent stars who came directly from High School at a young age. And they WERE talented enough, there can be no doubt about that. And then there are some of the younger player, guys like LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire and Dwight Howard, who have ALREADY proved that they are at an MVP level. And let's not forget that two of the guys I just mentioned were in the top-4 running for MVP in this past year.

These young kids have proved that they can improve the level of skill in the League, if they're given the chance. Two of the last four ROTY's have been kids that entered the draft straight out of high school, and people are honestly saying that they are not improving the game. Sure there are busts from High School, but let's be honest, there are many more scrubs from college than there are scrubs from High School. I don't know the exact percentage, but I'm the precentage for High Schooler's becoming legitimate players is higher than it is for college players. That's a fact.

My second point is the simple fact of how much different the college game IS from the NBA. The NBA is a much more orderly game, with much more emphasis on rumming plays and playing proper defense, as apposed to gambling on defense and fast breaking all the time. This is obviously for the simple reason that the NBA is more skilled, but it also gets players who go to college accustomed to that type of game. When they get to the NBA, they essentially have to change most of their games, because they must adjust to a different style of ball. And many of them can't adjust, and that's why there are a lot of players who were HUGE players in college, but just couldn't cut it in the League. On the other hand, with high school kids, they just don't have as much time to take in the high school/sollege game, so when they get to the NBA, they can learn that type of game at a faster rate. Sure they will be much more raw and won't have as much basketball intellect as some of the college players, but they will easily be able to learn just as much in the NBA, and at a faster rate.

There are also a lot of high school kids who have the skills to be a serious threat in the NBA, but who just don't have the money or the grades to get into college. With an age-limit, these kids could be living in complete poverty waiting for their chance to enter the draft, and by the chance that time comes around, they'll have missed it. They could be out of shape, or they might not be able to afford to stop working, and the NBA could miss out on some great young prospects.

The fact is, the NBA really doesn't have anything to gain by enforcing an age limit, but they do have enough to lose some great, young talent. The ratio of busts:stars between college and high school favour the high schoolers quite a bit. A jump from a high school to the NBA just doesn't happen that often, and when it does, it is more likely to be a good thing for the NBA than a bad thing.

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Old 09-01-2006, 11:50 PM   #2
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Old 09-02-2006, 12:35 AM   #3
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Okay, so I'm supposed to argue that the new Age Limit that's been proposed by Stern will not improve the skill level of the current NBA player.

Yes, good introduction, nothing to debate here, you have written fact, something that cannot be disproven nor swayed. You are off to a terrific start, however, I will still defeat you in this debate.

Quote:
Now looking at this issue, many people will believe that it is impossible to say that the talent in the NBA WON'T get better, because with the new age restriction, the league would be older. This however, is false.

This is not false. Scouts of National Basketball teams will have another year and much more television footage to examine the player and whether or not he will be fit for the league. As a player in college, you are exposed more to the media and to scouts. As a direct result, you will see a dramatic effect between the number of draft picks, and the number of busts, that is to say there will be fewer busts given the new age limit.

Quote:
First, let's look at the players who DID come into the league young, and who did extremely well. You have Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, and Jermaine O'neal. All excellent stars who came directly from High School at a young age. And they WERE talented enough, there can be no doubt about that. And then there are some of the younger player, guys like LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire and Dwight Howard, who have ALREADY proved that they are at an MVP level. And let's not forget that two of the guys I just mentioned were in the top-4 running for MVP in this past year.

You were able to name seven high school draftees whom have had success from drafts that span back to 1995 when Kevin Garnett was selected 4th overall. There is no dispute that these players are talented enough, but it's not always about getting to the league as fast as possible. By putting in an age limit, you make that player enter college or university, thereby providing them an oppurtunity to succeed in society should there playing career not work out. Additionally, you allow these young 18 year old boys, mature through one year of living on their own.

Quote:
These young kids have proved that they can improve the level of skill in the League, if they're given the chance. Two of the last four ROTY's have been kids that entered the draft straight out of high school, and people are honestly saying that they are not improving the game. Sure there are busts from High School, but let's be honest, there are many more scrubs from college than there are scrubs from High School. I don't know the exact percentage, but I'm the precentage for High Schooler's becoming legitimate players is higher than it is for college players. That's a fact.

There are players that are definately capable of playing in the NBA, but you are missing the fact that should these players fail, they have absolutely nothing but a high school degree to fall back on. For every LeBron James, there is also a Travis Outlaw. I don't believe that there are more college busts then high school busts, I would tend to figure that it's all relative to how many college players enter the draft as compared to high school players, but I would wager that it is all relative, if you can provide a figure to back up your claim, I would genuinely love to refute it.


Quote:
My second point is the simple fact of how much different the college game IS from the NBA. The NBA is a much more orderly game, with much more emphasis on rumming plays and playing proper defense, as apposed to gambling on defense and fast breaking all the time. This is obviously for the simple reason that the NBA is more skilled, but it also gets players who go to college accustomed to that type of game. When they get to the NBA, they essentially have to change most of their games, because they must adjust to a different style of ball. And many of them can't adjust, and that's why there are a lot of players who were HUGE players in college, but just couldn't cut it in the League. On the other hand, with high school kids, they just don't have as much time to take in the high school/sollege game, so when they get to the NBA, they can learn that type of game at a faster rate. Sure they will be much more raw and won't have as much basketball intellect as some of the college players, but they will easily be able to learn just as much in the NBA, and at a faster rate.

You have this entire section all wrong, the college game is much more structured with emphasis on team play and running plays. The NBA is much more about one on one domination of the basketball and using one key player to set up the rest of your team. It's the job of an NBA Scout to determine what player can step outside his system and succeed into the NBA. While some NCAA players find it difficult to adjust outside their college systems, High School players find it much more difficult to adjust to the NBA lifestyle, and the game. These players have gone from being physically mature at the high school level, to being absolutely overshadowed by the mass of NBA basketball players. College players are able to understand complex NBA offenses, as they have more experience, while high school players may struggle with the transition. College players are heralded for their abilties and accomplishments, while high school players are generally heralded for their outstanding athletic ability, but yet they lack the intellectual capacity to succeed at the NBA level. Simply put, College build mature, young basketball players who are able to adjust quickly and make an immediate impact, while normal high school players take two to three years to finally make the adjustment and make a contribution to the team. They would be better off going to university and getting an education rather then sitting on an NBA bench.

Quote:
There are also a lot of high school kids who have the skills to be a serious threat in the NBA, but who just don't have the money or the grades to get into college. With an age-limit, these kids could be living in complete poverty waiting for their chance to enter the draft, and by the chance that time comes around, they'll have missed it. They could be out of shape, or they might not be able to afford to stop working, and the NBA could miss out on some great young prospects.

Any kid who has the skills to be a serious threat will have no problem getting a full scholarship to a big name school. Not only this, but they will recieve tremendous funding in order to live a great quality of life. Kids who are waiting in poverty for the NBA draft have obviously made substandard decisions to put themselves in that situation. A wait of one year will not make them miss their chance. If they are out of shape, then they were never ready to become an NBA basketball player, because it takes extreme dedication and commitment to make it as a professional. This is a further reason why college basketball players are more ready for the NBA. They have a better understanding of the work and effort that they need to put into their game in order to succeed.

Quote:
The fact is, the NBA really doesn't have anything to gain by enforcing an age limit, but they do have enough to lose some great, young talent. The ratio of busts:stars between college and high school favour the high schoolers quite a bit. A jump from a high school to the NBA just doesn't happen that often, and when it does, it is more likely to be a good thing for the NBA than a bad thing.

The NBA has everything to gain and nothing to lose by enforcing an age limit. By enforcing a limit, the NBA accepts mature men who have an education, any player who struggles in the NBA should have an educational degree or diploma to fall back on. Scouts of NBA teams will have more footage to ensure that the player they are choosing is ready to handle the professional players. As a result of a limit, the "potential" tag will no longer exist, every talent will either be proven or disproven after years at a big time college school. There will be less risk in choosing basketball players, something that will surely raise the quality of play and player in the National Basketball Associaiton.
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Old 09-02-2006, 02:49 PM   #4
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The National Basketball Association will reap the benefits of David Sternís decision to implement an age limit at 19 years old. Players, following one year of post secondary, will dramatically improve in maturity as a player and human being. They will be setup with the chance of earning a degree or diploma, something crucial in order to fall back on should their attempt at professional basketball fail.

This entire paragraph really has nothing to do with the issue at hand. There is no doubt that it would definately benefit high schoolers to have a degree to fall back on, but that's not what we're discussing.

Quote:
Even if their attempt at basketball is a success, the knowledge and experiences gained through college or university is invaluable, something that every person, and National Basketball Franchise can benefit from.

As for the athletes gaining ecperience in the college game, they would gain no more experience in the NCAA than they would in the NBA. In fact, the experience gained in the NBA during that time would be obviously more useful, because it is experience that they can actually take with them for the rest of their careers in the NBA.

Quote:
Scouts from the National Basketball Association will have an easier time to see players who have physically and mentally matured, and who are now ready for the professional game. As a result, the professional league will improve; we will no longer watch an 18 year old, poorly developed physically and lacking experience, struggling against mature men who understand the intricate details of the game.

The thing is, we don't normally see those high school kids on a night-in, night-out basis. Possibly once every few games, but a lot of the extrememly young kids from high school don't play minutes in the NBA because their coaches realize they are not ready. So they sit a lot on the bench and observe, and after maybe 1-3 years, they become mature, mentally and physically, enough to play real minutes. By this time, they have developed, and at a much quicker rate than the college player I might add, and they are ready to play. And for those players who do get minutes right off the bat, ala Amare Stoudemire, they are obviously ready to play. There are exceptions of guys who are thrusted into starting roles, but there aren't many.

Quote:
As fans, we will now be rewarded watching players whom have proven themselves on a higher playing level then punishing inferior opponents at the high school level, we wonít have to hear our executives constantly spouting about a players unproven potential. We will now see players who have proven themselves worthy of the professional game, more physically mature and mentally ready.

While there are obviously players who improved through college and proved themselve, there are also players who WERE those stars in college and then became busts in the NBA. They may have higher basketball intellects and be more mature, but the high school kids will still improve a lot more being in the NBA than they would being at college. They would have a chance to practice with real NBA stars, and they would develop much much quicker. And for those who didn't develop as quick as others, they would simply not play. Therefore the NBA fanbase would not have to suffer through watching the extremely raw kids play.

Quote:
The game as a whole will benefit from the change; the quality of play will rise, not only in the National Basketball Association, but all in NCAA College Basketball where players who were outstanding high school players will now be experiencing NCAA Basketball and March Madness.


But if there are players who are good enough to skip NCAA ball, why shouldn't they be allowed to. Why deny the right to go straight to the NBA from high school to a kid who has rightfully earned that right. Obviously the college game will get better, but that's the point. A lot of these high schoolers are good anough to be stars in college, but they are also good enough to make an NBA team, and make a difference with that team within the first few years, or even in their rookie season.

Quote:
The game will be played better, and will be full of more talent. As an outsider, it is clear to see that itís in everyoneís best interest to implement an age limit, players are forced to get a great education, and teams get a better judge of actual talent, fans are rewarded with excellent, talented individuals whom have earned the right to grace the court with their presence.


Again, the fact that the players will get an education has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sure, it's a good thing, but it doesn't really matter in this argument.

And sure the college guys have proved they can play in the NBA, but the high schoolers have as well. By being so amazing in high school, and then having success in the NBA right away, a few players have proved that high schoolers should have the right to go straight to the NBA because it has been proven before that they can have an immediate impact to a team.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:05 PM   #5
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This is not false. Scouts of National Basketball teams will have another year and much more television footage to examine the player and whether or not he will be fit for the league. As a player in college, you are exposed more to the media and to scouts. As a direct result, you will see a dramatic effect between the number of draft picks, and the number of busts, that is to say there will be fewer busts given the new age limit.

But the fact remains that there are great college players who have been scouted a lot during their time in college, but ended up being busts in the NBA anyway. Even with a TON of scouting on an individual, you still can't be SURE that the guy won't be a bust.

Quote:
You were able to name seven high school draftees whom have had success from drafts that span back to 1995 when Kevin Garnett was selected 4th overall. There is no dispute that these players are talented enough, but it's not always about getting to the league as fast as possible. By putting in an age limit, you make that player enter college or university, thereby providing them an oppurtunity to succeed in society should there playing career not work out. Additionally, you allow these young 18 year old boys, mature through one year of living on their own.

Again this really has nothing to do with the topic. They get an education, but that in turn doesn't effect the talent pool in the NBA at all. And who's to say that if these guy's had gone to college, their games had of continued to improve as much as they did in their first few years in the NBA. It's definately possible that if KG had of gone to college, he wouldn't have improved over the course of that 2-4 year period as much as he did in the NBA. Therefore, he might not be as skilled or polished as he is today.

Quote:
There are players that are definately capable of playing in the NBA, but you are missing the fact that should these players fail, they have absolutely nothing but a high school degree to fall back on. For every LeBron James, there is also a Travis Outlaw. I don't believe that there are more college busts then high school busts, I would tend to figure that it's all relative to how many college players enter the draft as compared to high school players, but I would wager that it is all relative, if you can provide a figure to back up your claim, I would genuinely love to refute it.

Again, nothing to do with the topic, which is the effect of the talent pool in the NBA that the age limit could have.

And I agree, it is all relative, but that's the point. Even THOUGH the players who went to college were scouted more than the high schoolers who went straight to the League, there is still basically the same percentage of players from either category (high school or college) who ended up being busts. Getting a better scouting report on a player doesn't always mean GM's can accurately judge his game.

Quote:
You have this entire section all wrong, the college game is much more structured with emphasis on team play and running plays. The NBA is much more about one on one domination of the basketball and using one key player to set up the rest of your team. It's the job of an NBA Scout to determine what player can step outside his system and succeed into the NBA.

Again, NBA scouts can be wrong.

Quote:
While some NCAA players find it difficult to adjust outside their college systems, High School players find it much more difficult to adjust to the NBA lifestyle, and the game. These players have gone from being physically mature at the high school level, to being absolutely overshadowed by the mass of NBA basketball players. College players are able to understand complex NBA offenses, as they have more experience, while high school players may struggle with the transition. College players are heralded for their abilties and accomplishments, while high school players are generally heralded for their outstanding athletic ability, but yet they lack the intellectual capacity to succeed at the NBA level. Simply put, College build mature, young basketball players who are able to adjust quickly and make an immediate impact, while normal high school players take two to three years to finally make the adjustment and make a contribution to the team. They would be better off going to university and getting an education rather then sitting on an NBA bench.

But by the time a high school player matures, he can already make a contribution, while had he gone to college, he might still be there.

Quote:
Any kid who has the skills to be a serious threat will have no problem getting a full scholarship to a big name school. Not only this, but they will recieve tremendous funding in order to live a great quality of life. Kids who are waiting in poverty for the NBA draft have obviously made substandard decisions to put themselves in that situation. A wait of one year will not make them miss their chance. If they are out of shape, then they were never ready to become an NBA basketball player, because it takes extreme dedication and commitment to make it as a professional. This is a further reason why college basketball players are more ready for the NBA. They have a better understanding of the work and effort that they need to put into their game in order to succeed.

I actually can't argue this. I agree.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RidonKs
But the fact remains that there are great college players who have been scouted a lot during their time in college, but ended up being busts in the NBA anyway. Even with a TON of scouting on an individual, you still can't be SURE that the guy won't be a bust.

You will never be 100% sure that a player will not be a bust, every player cannot be a bonafide sure thing. However, by giving the scouting the extra years and hours of footage of the player in game situations, you lower the amount of busts in the draft. There will always be the occurance that a bust happens, but by raising the age limit, you lower the amount of busts, thereby raising the level of play in the NBA. Obviously, by raising the level of play, the fans watch a more entertaining, competitive brand of basketball. If you select kids from high school, you are selecting a player based on what you think he will become 4 or 5 years down the road, with an age limit, you can get a better understanding of what that player already has become or will become in the near future, thereby eliminating the risk of an inferior player making the league and lowering the level of play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Again this really has nothing to do with the topic. They get an education, but that in turn doesn't effect the talent pool in the NBA at all. And who's to say that if these guy's had gone to college, their games had of continued to improve as much as they did in their first few years in the NBA. It's definately possible that if KG had of gone to college, he wouldn't have improved over the course of that 2-4 year period as much as he did in the NBA. Therefore, he might not be as skilled or polished as he is today.

It doesn't have an effect on the game of basketball, but it has an effect on the National Basketball Association as a business. The NBA markets it's players, and it's much easier and better to market players who have a great education. Players who have gone to college represent and portray a better public image. Players who go to college can improve their game through every day practise and constant refining of their skill set. It's very easy to use a hypothetical situation that Kevin Garnett may not have been as polished, but it holds no basis.

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Originally Posted by RidonKs
And I agree, it is all relative, but that's the point. Even THOUGH the players who went to college were scouted more than the high schoolers who went straight to the League, there is still basically the same percentage of players from either category (high school or college) who ended up being busts. Getting a better scouting report on a player doesn't always mean GM's can accurately judge his game.

It gives the teams a better oppurtunity to judge their game, and as a result, they hopefully, using there eye for talent, can decide which players are mature enough to handle the NBA. There is still the possibility of the player not working out, but hopefully by watching film, you lower your chances of choosing a player who can't handle the NBA. As a result, you see better players in the NBA, players who make the game marketable, and enjoyable to fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Again, NBA scouts can be wrong.

There is always the chance the scout will be wrong, but the chance that he will be wrong will be lowered if all players are put out to the media more. With more coverage, a scout can pick apart a players game and determine if they are fit for the professional level. While they will sometimes make mistakes, the chances that they make those mistakes are lowered by inputting an age limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
But by the time a high school player matures, he can already make a contribution, while had he gone to college, he might still be there.

The idea by going to college is that, by the time he is ready for the NBA game, he will simply declare for the NBA draft and make an immediate impact similar to Chris Paul. While a player like Shaun Livingston, drafted out of high school, is still adjusting to the NBA game and has not matured enough physically. As a result, he has encountered injuries, a result of his not matured body, and has passed up the oppurtunity for an education. Chris Paul is now a bonafide star, with a back up plan should he ever fail at basketball.

Now, did Shaun Livingston really make the NBA game better by sitting on the bench and learning? No he didn't, but Chris Paul has certainly made the game better by making his immediate impact. Remember, both players are the same age, but the maturity gained through college has significantly impacted the game of one, while sitting on the bench and "learning" has hindered the impact of the other.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:35 PM   #7
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Honestly, I really can't think of a good way to argue this point. There must be some point that I missed, but everything that I've said in this thread are all facts that I myself do not believe. I'm sorry I couldn't give you a better debate Pistol. You did great obviously, and I don't think I'm much of a debater.

I hate to give up in a tournament like this, but I just can't stand typing things that I in no way believe, especially if it's everything I type. Obviously this won't kill the tourny at all, because Pistol would've won anyway, so I don't really see the point in continually repeating arguments for my side that aren't even true. Again, there's probably something I missed, but I couldn't think of it or find it on the internet, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to give up.

Good job Pistol. You did well, and just to make it official , I formally forfiet this match. If there are any points you think I could have argued well for my side Pistol, I'd love to hear them.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by RidonKs
Honestly, I really can't think of a good way to argue this point. There must be some point that I missed, but everything that I've said in this thread are all facts that I myself do not believe. I'm sorry I couldn't give you a better debate Pistol. You did great obviously, and I don't think I'm much of a debater.

I hate to give up in a tournament like this, but I just can't stand typing things that I in no way believe, especially if it's everything I type. Obviously this won't kill the tourny at all, because Pistol would've won anyway, so I don't really see the point in continually repeating arguments for my side that aren't even true. Again, there's probably something I missed, but I couldn't think of it or find it on the internet, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to give up.

Good job Pistol. You did well, and just to make it official , I formally forfiet this match. If there are any points you think I could have argued well for my side Pistol, I'd love to hear them.

It's a difficult side to debate, in my mind it always seems a positive to atleast begin your post-secondary education, surely when you will have a full scholarship before entering the league after your sophmore or junior year, if you feel ready. The positives obviously, you have begun your quest to get a degree, and now are in the NBA.

You did well with what you wrote, the only point that I would have made that would have maybe been hard to argue, would be that by going from high school to the NBA, you get a guarenteed pay day, where as if you go to college, you risk injury and nothing. But even that can be debated with possible insurance policies a la Matt Leinart at USC.

Good Match, it was fun, you write well. I will look forward to my second match. It's nice to know that I can take a break instead of constantly checking the thread for updates. Have a nice day.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pistol Pete
It's a difficult side to debate, in my mind it always seems a positive to atleast begin your post-secondary education, surely when you will have a full scholarship before entering the league after your sophmore or junior year, if you feel ready. The positives obviously, you have begun your quest to get a degree, and now are in the NBA.

You did well with what you wrote, the only point that I would have made that would have maybe been hard to argue, would be that by going from high school to the NBA, you get a guarenteed pay day, where as if you go to college, you risk injury and nothing. But even that can be debated with possible insurance policies a la Matt Leinart at USC.

Good Match, it was fun, you write well. I will look forward to my second match. It's nice to know that I can take a break instead of constantly checking the thread for updates. Have a nice day.

No, I did actually think of that. But that really is more of a downside then an upside for the NBA.

If guys think they can get that huge payday, then they will automatically want to enter the draft, even if they are not physically or mentally ready. And a team might take them. This gives the league even more raw, young, unskilled players.

And really, that doesn't even have anything to do with the argument, because of the fact that that has nothing to do with the actual talent pool in the NBA, except in a negative way. Great for high schoolers, bad for NBA. Which even more emphasizes your point.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RidonKs
No, I did actually think of that. But that really is more of a downside then an upside for the NBA.

If guys think they can get that huge payday, then they will automatically want to enter the draft, even if they are not physically or mentally ready. And a team might take them. This gives the league even more raw, young, unskilled players.

And really, that doesn't even have anything to do with the argument, because of the fact that that has nothing to do with the actual talent pool in the NBA, except in a negative way. Great for high schoolers, bad for NBA. Which even more emphasizes your point.

I was more thinking of it the other way, the money will motivate the player to raise his stock, working hard to raise his draft position, in hopes of the payday, once he gets there, he continues his hard work to make the first maximum contract, then from there it's anybody's guess.

Anyways, I'm done thinking about this topic.
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Old 09-02-2006, 03:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Pistol Pete
I was more thinking of it the other way, the money will motivate the player to raise his stock, working hard to raise his draft position, in hopes of the payday, once he gets there, he continues his hard work to make the first maximum contract, then from there it's anybody's guess.

Anyways, I'm done thinking about this topic.

Okay, I get ya now.

And I think I might be done too.
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Old 09-03-2006, 09:39 AM   #12
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Live debating over, closing statements by Monday night at 8pm eastern time please
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Old 09-03-2006, 01:06 PM   #13
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Live debating over, closing statements by Monday night at 8pm eastern time please

The match has already been forfeited by RidonKs. Closing Statements are not necessary.
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Old 09-03-2006, 01:51 PM   #14
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ok sorry
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: ISH Debate Tourney- Round 1: Pistol Pete vs. RidonKs

Come back real Pistol Pete, I want a rematch!
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