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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Random_Guy
not that im saying bron is a better finisher, but imo stats do matter. it doesnt matter how good or crafty you are, as long as the balls in then you are the better finished. say MJ uses this supreme change hand layup and it goes in 60 % of the time, but bron just dunks the ball every single time and it goes in 95% of the time, who do you think is the better finisher?
If Lebron was facing a packed paint like every time, he would not be finishing 95% of the time with a dunk...That's part of the point that some make...Lebron plays in a different NBA with a more open lane so he doesn't even have as many attempts to try to finish with a packed paint like MJ did so to be fair to Lebron, maybe he could finish as well as MJ with a packed paint but we don't have data like for Lebron because of the way the league is today.
It's the point I made in another thread, sure Lebron has an outstanding finishing percentage but I have not gotten a chance to see him have to finish around multiple defenders anywhere near as many times as MJ did...So I can't give it to Lebron...Not his fault, the rules just aren't the same.....
Edit - I think its also fair to say that many of those same plays if it were Lebron, he might have kicked it out to an open man instead of trying to finish the play. Also another reason why its hard to compare these 2, they are 2 different types of players.....
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Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
insane hangtime and improvisation at the hoop. one of my favorite reverse layups all time @ 7:14 - just another example of jordan's ingenuity. top 3-5 player all time
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The Fam
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
now show the misses
And they say MJ fans are insecure...Can't just enjoy the great highlights huh?
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for your health
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
I love the highlight video, but why has the Jordan/LeBron thing suddenly become big talk again?
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... on a leash
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Dro
If Lebron was facing a packed paint like every time, he would not be finishing 95% of the time with a dunk...That's part of the point that some make...Lebron plays in a different NBA with a more open lane so he doesn't even have as many attempts to try to finish with a packed paint like MJ did so to be fair to Lebron, maybe he could finish as well as MJ with a packed paint but we don't have data like for Lebron because of the way the league is today.
It's the point I made in another thread, sure Lebron has an outstanding finishing percentage but I have not gotten a chance to see him have to finish around multiple defenders anywhere near as many times as MJ did...So I can't give it to Lebron...Not his fault, the rules just aren't the same.....
Edit - I think its also fair to say that many of those same plays if it were Lebron, he might have kicked it out to an open man instead of trying to finish the play. Also another reason why its hard to compare these 2, they are 2 different types of players.....
You're the same guy that said Kobe is a better finisher around the basket than LeBron.. Your opinion on this topic isn't valid.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Prometheus
I love the highlight video, but why has the Jordan/LeBron thing suddenly become big talk again?
because of you.
while you were posting in the "Better Passing: Jordan vs Lebron" thread, you realized my entire argument for Jordan rode on Lebron being a ball-dominator, and so you requested data about ball-dominance.
that's when ISH poster Jlip provided a link to the NBA's new, cutting edge SportsVu data that tracks players movements, and it showed that Lebron dominates the ball as much as point guards and more than any non-point guard in the entire league (kobe only played 6 games and crawford didn't start).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingT...&sortOrder=DES
The data also showed that the top 50 ball-dominators in 2014 averaged between 4 and 11 assists per game, which led to the conclusion that Lebron's 6.3 assist average is completely standard for ball-dominators, and overrated in comparison with off-ball players that get the same assist averages... A 6.3 assist average for a ball-dominator is also overrated compared to the true best-passing ball-dominators like Magic, Nash, or Stockton, who averaged twice the assists of Lebron - Lebron's passing is often equated with these guys in the most egregious and erroneous fashion.
So once we confirmed that Lebron dominated the ball like a point guard and was the most ball-dominant wing in the league, it put his 6.3 assist-average in the proper light - it's an underacheivement considering his ball-domination - even Durant dominates the ball 27.5% less, but only gets 13% less assists, 5.5 to 6.3).
Last edited by 3ball; 10-19-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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3peat
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Prometheus
I love the highlight video, but why has the Jordan/LeBron thing suddenly become big talk again?
Seems like it's mostly a couple mj stans/trolls keep making threads about it. Again, proving that player stans are the worst fans in basketball.
Anyway, great mix of one of the most exciting players ever. GOAT
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
You're the same guy that said Kobe is a better finisher around the basket than LeBron.. Your opinion on this topic isn't valid.
And your opinion on anything pre-2011 isnt valid so...
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for your health
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by 3ball
because of you.
while you were posting in the " Better Passing: Jordan vs Lebron" thread, you realized my entire argument for Jordan rode on Lebron being a ball-dominator, and so you requested data about ball-dominance.
that's when ISH poster Jlip provided a link to the NBA's new, cutting edge SportsVu data that tracks players movements, and it showed that Lebron dominates the ball as much as point guards and more than any non-point guard in the entire league (kobe only played 6 games and crawford didn't start).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingT...&sortOrder=DES
The data also showed that the top 50 ball-dominators in 2014 averaged between 4 and 11 assists per game, which led to the conclusion that Lebron's 6.3 assist average is completely standard for ball-dominators, and overrated in comparison with off-ball players that get the same assist averages... A 6.3 assist average for a ball-dominator is also overrated compared to the true best-passing ball-dominators like Magic, Nash, or Stockton, who averaged twice the assists of Lebron - Lebron's passing is often equated with these guys in the most egregious and erroneous fashion.
So once we confirmed that Lebron dominated the ball like a point guard and was the most ball-dominant wing in the league, it put his 6.3 assist-average in the proper light - it's a solid average but pretty standard for ball-dominators, about the same as good-passing off-ball players, and nowhere near the best-passing ball-dominators... Overall, his assist average gets consistently overrated (i.e. even Durant dominates the ball 27.5% less, but only gets 13% less assists, 5.5 to 6.3).
It's one thing for you to have your opinions, and it's another thing to argue them incessantly, all weekend long (get out much?), to the point that I just don't care enough to debate with you any more. But now you want to spam those arguments into other threads? If you keep this up, you're going to end up looking really, really dumb.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by Prometheus
It's one thing for you to have your opinions, and it's another thing to argue them incessantly, all weekend long (get out much?), to the point that I just don't care enough to debate with you any more. But now you want to spam those arguments into other threads? If you keep this up, you're going to end up looking really, really dumb.
you're the one that pleaded for the data, swearing my assertion was "bullshit" as I believe you phrased it.
and then once the data was provided, it proved me right, at which point you had no more comment on the topic and don't want to talk about it anymore.
so stfu... you were wrong... i was right... this is an internet forum... so gloating is allowed.
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by ArbitraryWater
You're the same guy that said Kobe is a better finisher around the basket than LeBron.. Your opinion on this topic isn't valid.
Nothing about my post you just quoted was illogical. And your opinion isn't valid to me. You pimp Lebron all the time and never saw MJ play in his prime. You use stats as your entire argument, I use what I see on the court. Why should I care what you think? Why do you care what I think?
Last edited by Dro; 10-19-2014 at 12:58 PM.
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NBA Legend
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by 3ball
you're the one that pleaded for the data, swearing my assertion was "bullshit" as I believe you phrased it.
and then once the data was provided, it proved me right, at which point you had no more comment on the topic and don't want to talk about it anymore.
so stfu... you were wrong... i was right... this is an internet forum... so gloating is allowed.
Reported. Quit derailing topics and spamming the board with your psychobabble.
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NBA lottery pick
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by andgar923
Nevermind the fact that he usually has to split 2-3 defenders while in the air.
What's more impressive is how he manages to adjust and maneuver so quickly and seamlessly. He does it as quickly and as smooth as Bron switches teams, just like breathing.
Repped.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Michael Jordan 12 min TOTAL Reverse
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Reported. Quit derailing topics and spamming the board with your psychobabble.
had to call out Prometheus on his bs
but that's over so carry on....
Last edited by 3ball; 10-19-2014 at 01:04 PM.
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