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Old 12-12-2010, 08:21 AM   #31
Poolthief
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

You guys are nuts. Bargnani will never be a great player, but he's the only thing this team has going right now. Opposing coaches are designing their gameplans around stopping him (as we don't have a legit 2nd option at the moment) and he's still scoring 21+ PPG on a very efficient .560 TS%.

Compare that to Lamarcus Aldridge (who Q just said he'd prefer) whose scoring 16.5 PPG on a putrid .495 TS%.

Blaming Bargs for our porous wing play is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ever consider the fact that maybe our 2s & 3s just suck? We haven't a had a true talent on the wing since Vince Carter left and that's on BC.

I think Bargnani can still take his game to another level, but he needs an elite guard for him to play off of... all bigs do. (We've got people praising Millsap's offense in this thread and he's playing alongside arguably the best PG in the league).

When Bosh was here everyone was on Colangelo for not bringing in a true C. It was always the #1 excuse for Chris' inability to take the team anywhere. Well, doesn't that still hold true now? Bargnani is currently playing alongside one of the smallest frontcourts in franchise history. We don't have any great defensive players in there with him (Amir's the best we've got, but he lacks size/can't stay on the floor due to fouling). Everyone else on the roster is looking to score first and none of them are very good at it.

The team makeup is a mess right now and yet somehow all the negative attention gets drawn to Andrea. It's a f'n joke.

Last edited by Poolthief : 12-12-2010 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:57 PM   #32
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

Quote:
Compare that to Lamarcus Aldridge (who Q just said he'd prefer) whose scoring 16.5 PPG on a putrid .495 TS%
The only time I remember hearing Q saying he'd prefer Aldridge was when he said he wouldn't want anything to do with either player but that he'd prefer Aldridge because he would be easier to trade.

As for the rest of the post, nobody blames him for everything the TEAM isn't good at, they blame him (or rather Colangelo) for everything HE'S not good at. As many people have repeated many times, he's a C's body with SG/SF skills. Is it his fault? Maybe not because he's a product of the system and that's how he grew up playing back home. But, it's just simply easier to get a big with the proper skills for the position than it is to have to try and overcompensate all the other positions to make up for it.
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Old 12-12-2010, 02:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by bokes15
The only time I remember hearing Q saying he'd prefer Aldridge was when he said he wouldn't want anything to do with either player but that he'd prefer Aldridge because he would be easier to trade.

As for the rest of the post, nobody blames him for everything the TEAM isn't good at, they blame him (or rather Colangelo) for everything HE'S not good at. As many people have repeated many times, he's a C's body with SG/SF skills. Is it his fault? Maybe not because he's a product of the system and that's how he grew up playing back home. But, it's just simply easier to get a big with the proper skills for the position than it is to have to try and overcompensate all the other positions to make up for it.

Man, he said it in this very thread -.-

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I'd personally take Aldridge too but that's close. Similar "soft" frontcourt players but to me, Aldridge does most things just a little bit better. But that could be a toss-up.
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Old 12-12-2010, 02:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by Doko
Man, he said it in this very thread -.-
Doesn't matter, said they are both similar soft frontcourt players.. I personally would prefer Bargnani to Aldridge but i'd easily take a guy like David Lee or Kevin Love over either of them.
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Old 12-12-2010, 02:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Doesn't matter, said they are both similar soft frontcourt players.. I personally would prefer Bargnani to Aldridge but i'd easily take a guy like David Lee or Kevin Love over either of them.
Pretty much.

Bargnani is more reliable as a scorer but Aldridge is a bit of a better rebounder and a better defensive player. Like I said, it's close. I wouldn't want either one being close to the role of "best player on the team".
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Old 12-12-2010, 05:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

I would have prefered aldridge at the time, but not now.
Aldridge is a very average player that doesn't do anything really well.
And his contract is ridiculous. Way worse contract than bargs.
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:42 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

i think we should trade bargnani straight up for a project starting center and a mid 1st. it would let us get even more worse=which would mean 3 years straight of top 5 picks. and then we could be a championship team then.

imo.

and damn the 2006 draft!
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

We're also not comparing apples to apples. We don't know what Aldridge would do as the clear number one option on a bad team. I think he's put up pretty good stats.

As for value, I can't say Bargs has a bad contract. It's standard when you look around the NBA. I wish he didn't have it on our team though.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by tripledouble24
i think we should trade bargnani straight up for a project starting center and a mid 1st. it would let us get even more worse=which would mean 3 years straight of top 5 picks. and then we could be a championship team then.

imo.

and damn the 2006 draft!


That's a tough trade to make considering salaries would have to be matched.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:18 AM   #40
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
That's a tough trade to make considering salaries would have to be matched.
We'll have to take bad contracts if we want to use the TPE and expirers. That's a part of the rebuilding process.

Anyway, I definitely wouldn't trade Bargnani. He has the potential to be the second best player in a contender. He could be like Pau Gasol in the Lakers. We still need a young Kobe though and he has to come through the draft.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:27 AM   #41
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by FCardelle
We'll have to take bad contracts if we want to use the TPE and expirers. That's a part of the rebuilding process.

Anyway, I definitely wouldn't trade Bargnani. He has the potential to be the second best player in a contender. He could be like Pau Gasol in the Lakers. We still need a young Kobe though and he has to come through the draft.

please dont compare gasol to bargs.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Originally Posted by bada bing
please dont compare gasol to bargs.
Yeah, i'm pretty sure any of us would take Pau Gasol in a heartbeat.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:59 PM   #43
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

Whom would you take?
Pau Gasol at 30, the tough PF/C that helped LA to championships, with a huge contract (17 - 19M) until 2014?
Pau Gasol at 25 when he was a soft PF that got nothing in Memphis, but was scoring 17-20 ppg in a bad team? (I think that they are quite comparable)
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:18 PM   #44
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

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Pau Gasol at 25 when he was a soft PF that got nothing in Memphis, but was scoring 17-20 ppg in a bad team? (I think that they are quite comparable)
Pau Gasol at 25 was a clearly more efficient scorer, better rebounder, better passer and defensive player than Bargnani has ever been. Go compare their results. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. The comparison is nowhere close other than both being tall Europeans. I don't see how you could call him "soft" either. Just because someone may not be a defensive monster, doesn't instantly make him soft. It's like all the people who have called Dirk soft. They're wrong.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Bargnani - A good value?

I agree that Gasol was a much better rebounder and passer, a better defender also, while Bargnani is a much better shooter. Gasol was a slightly better player overall IMO.
But Gasol was soft in any meaning of the term. He was slim when he entered in the NBA and he compensated with his quickness and length. He never performed well in the key moments until very recently. He wasn't a true leader for the team.
They are comparable because
- They are 7 feet tall, but they aren't true centers. (Now Gasol maybe is)
- They got great numbers in a bad team that hardly made the playoffs.
- They are borderline all-stars (Like I said this summer, I still think that Bargnani can be an all-star once or twice)
- They are Europeans that get tougher as they become veterans in the NBA.
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