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Old 03-16-2011, 05:46 PM   #46
jasonresno
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Who said anything about stats? What the hell does Kevin Love have to do with anything? Anyone who watches the games knows that Kevin Love isn't nearly as good as Derrick Rose. Please.

Yes, there are a lot of stupid people on this planet. I am smarter than the vast majority of them. My IQ is 137. But we're straying off topic... lol...

In this instance, yes, nearly everyone else is wrong. Large groups of people can be wrong, bud. Maybe you'll figure that out one day.
Well, since this is the internet my IQ is 138. I win.

But for what it's worth I'm taking Phil Jackson/Doc Rivers/Michael Jordans opinion on basketball over yours . And they all say Rose=MVP.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
First part I agree 100%. Rose doing that is huge for the offense. Is it showing up as an assist, no. If it did should it be added 2 points to his point total and a % of the offense, no.

I'm a tool. Go make a thread about how 20 points + 10 assists = 40 points and a % of that players teams offense. Watch yourself get laughed at.

It's like you think the person who get's the assist is responsible or as responsible as the person SCORING the ball. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they don't do shit and it's the player making a tough shot.
I want to dislike you more but you have a Pierce the Veil avatar. I edited out the pointless namecalling. I kind of see where you are coming from. But you are opening up a gigantic can of worms that totally undermines the point of even keeping stats. By your logic APG shouldn't even be a metric.

Look at it like this: in the NFL a few years ago Brian Westbrook lead the league in % of his teams total offense. So should he be penalized because someone handed him the ball/threw it to him?

For PGs APG/PPG combined is a great indication to how much of an impact a player has on offense. It won't tell the whole story (stats never do) but it's a reference point. And you pointing out how horribly flawed these stats are just underlines more the point that stats aren't everything and that's why Rose will probably win the MVP.

And again, I reiterate, I would love to see you break down Stockton/Jordan. Legitimately interested.

Last edited by jasonresno : 03-16-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
lol since when was getting an assist on a bucket make you responsible for it? Let's take a look at every single one of his assists and we can break down every one where he completely set the table for a guy and what one's he simply just dumped it off and his teammate made the shot.

Reaaaaally bad logic right there.




uh



the reason the passes are so easy is because his penetration ability is so great, he gets to the rim and draws help and makes an easy pass, and you penalize him because the pass is easy? the pass was easy because hes so good!
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by Rose
because it's valuable, not da bess award.
I never disagreed with you about that. Why were we arguing again?
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:51 PM   #50
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by creepingdeath
I never disagreed with you about that. Why were we arguing again?
In all honesty, I have no ****ing clue.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by chazzy
He's saying you shouldn't attribute assists as someone's value to an offense at equal weight to points scored. Otherwise that would mean Stockton was more important to his offense than Jordan because he scored/assisted on x% of shots. Scoring 20 and getting 10 assists isn't equivalent to scoring 40 points.
Maybe Stockton did contribute more to his teams offense. That doesn't make him better than Jordan. It means he impacted the Jazz, statistically, more. Maybe. I'm not sure, like I said, I'd love to see the actual stats broken down.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:52 PM   #52
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
Well, since this is the internet my IQ is 138. I win.

But for what it's worth I'm taking Phil Jackson/Doc Rivers/Michael Jordans opinion on basketball over yours . And they all say Rose=MVP.

I'm not lying. You can believe me or not, it matters not.

Also... Doc Rivers is a lousy coach. Good player... lousy coach that fell into a good situation. He was about to get canned before the Celtics pulled off the trades they did. So soon we forget...



Michael Jordan... greatest career of any basketball player ever... also one of the worst evaluators of talent and running an organization in the entire league.



Phil Jackson... great coach. He also says a lot of stuff in the media to mess with people. Also, while being an incredibly great coach... one of the most overrated coaches ever. It's hard to mess up having Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Gasol on your teams. It really is just hard. Let's not overlook it.

My point is this... the opinions of people closer to the situation than myself does not make them any more right simply because they are closer. Don't fall back on their opinions to justify your own, please.

Last edited by Orlando Magic : 03-16-2011 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:53 PM   #53
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Jesus. How isn't anyone grasping this. 20 points + 10 assists doesn't = 40 points. Your saying Rose's points + Rose's assists = 45% or w.e of the Bulls offense. You literally can't put the value of 1 assist to 2 points.

So I assume with you logic you rate John Stockton pretty highly? Or Even somebody like Jose Calderon offensively anyways. He'd be directly responsible for like 30 points going by that logic.

Ex. Somebody makes an entry pass, post player does a TOUGH turnaround. Your telling me the PG should be responsible for 2 points, and a percentage of the teams offense?.

Assist statistic is very flawed. It helps you gauge how somebody runs the offense tho. Shows you he is controlling the offense for the most part. Doesn't mean that there assists make them directly responsible for the points tho.

So you truly believe a 20\10 player is responsible for 40 points?
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:54 PM   #54
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
I'm not lying. You can believe me or not, it matters not.

Also... Doc Rivers is a lousy coach. Good player... lousy coach that fell into a good situation. He was about to get canned before the Celtics pulled off the trades they did. So soon we forget...



Michael Jordan... greatest career of any basketball player ever... also one of the worst evaluators of talent and running an organization in the entire league.



Phil Jackson... great coach. He also says a lot of stuff in the media to mess with people. Also, while being an incredibly great coach... one of the most overrated coaches ever. It's hard to mess up having Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Gasol on your teams. It really is just hard. Let's not overlook it.

My point is this... the opinions of people closer to the situation than myself does not make them any more right. Don't fall back on their opinions to justify your own, please.
I don't and I didn't. I posted what I believe the MVP award is (and what nearly everyone believes). So it's not like I chose to fall to their opinions first. But you said: "Well, no! Everyone else is wrong, I am right." and then I said: "Well, these NBA LEGENDS even agree with me." and you said "TLDNR".
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:56 PM   #55
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

90 Stockton: 17.2/14.5 = 46.2 points of offense

90 Jordan: 33.6/6.3 = 45.9 points of offense

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Old 03-16-2011, 05:57 PM   #56
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Who else deserves it. LeBron and Wade are joke candidates. Either player has the most stacked supporting cast ever and they are the 3 seed. Rose has far less talent and is #1.

Dwight's team sucks and he's not clutch when it matters.

Dirk is one of the worst rebounding PF's ever.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:57 PM   #57
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Jesus. How isn't anyone grasping this. 20 points + 10 assists doesn't = 40 points. Your saying Rose's points + Rose's assists = 45% or w.e of the Bulls offense. You literally can't put the value of 1 assist to 2 points.

So I assume with you logic you rate John Stockton pretty highly? Or Even somebody like Jose Calderon offensively anyways. He'd be directly responsible for like 30 points going by that logic.

Ex. Somebody makes an entry pass, post player does a TOUGH turnaround. Your telling me the PG should be responsible for 2 points, and a percentage of the teams offense?.

Assist statistic is very flawed. It helps you gauge how somebody runs the offense tho. Shows you he is controlling the offense for the most part. Doesn't mean that there assists make them directly responsible for the points tho.

So you truly believe a 20\10 player is responsible for 40 points?
Or how about when Rose makes an acrobatic play and finds the perfect pass for an easy layup for his teammate?

All stats are flawed in a fundamental way: they don't take into account the intangibles of a game of basketball. A lucky bounce of the ball, a blown call by the ref, biffed layups etc etc... But to completely say "Stats are worthless" is even more flawed. They are a good way to get a quick reference on how much a player contributes in a certain way.

Last edited by jasonresno : 03-16-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:59 PM   #58
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
90 Stockton: 17.2/14.5 = 46.2 points of offense

90 Jordan: 33.6/6.3 = 45.9 points of offense

So this tell us that Stockton statistically had his fingers in on more of the Jazz offense than Jordan did the Bulls offense. Is that believable?
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Old 03-16-2011, 05:59 PM   #59
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
I don't and I didn't. I posted what I believe the MVP award is (and what nearly everyone believes). So it's not like I chose to fall to their opinions first. But you said: "Well, no! Everyone else is wrong, I am right." and then I said: "Well, these NBA LEGENDS even agree with me." and you said "TLDNR".

I did not say too long, didn't read. I responded to your reasoning of "Well, they're "NBA LEGENDS" and you're just some guy on the internet, so I'm more likely to believe them." And I promptly provided reasoning for why their opinions are absolutely no better than my own and should not be held in higher regard because of their status.

Which is fine, if that's what you want to end the conversation at and let this go with. Just know that they're wrong, and so are you.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:01 PM   #60
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

nash won 2 in a row, kobe only 1
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