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Old 03-16-2011, 06:01 PM   #61
jasonresno
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
I did not say too long, didn't read. I responded to your reasoning of "Well, they're "NBA LEGENDS" and you're just some guy on the internet, so I'm more likely to believe them." And I promptly provided reasoning for why their opinions are absolutely no better than my own and should not be held in higher regard because of their status.

Which is fine, if that's what you want to end the conversation at and let this go with. Just know that they're wrong, and so are you.
But they aren't. You are. All you have is "I know I'M right, regardless if the rest of the world disagrees."

HOF basketball players who LIVE the NBA > forum jockeys.

But if you want to end this petty "debate" with "I am more basketball savvy than HOF basketball players/coaches." That is your prerogative and you are welcome to it. It's completely asinine, but that's totally OK.

In fact all of your logic and "points" are self circulating. You say "I'm right, everyones wrong" and you back it up with your own opinion. So you validate your correctness not with facts, but more opinion. And you validate your opinions, not with facts, but even more opinions. It's a viscous cycle of idiocy.

Last edited by jasonresno : 03-16-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:01 PM   #62
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Assists are valuable but not as valuable as points, they are not overrated at all. There is a difference between a good pass and a bad pass.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:03 PM   #63
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by jasonresno
HOF basketball players who LIVE the NBA > forum jockeys.

On average? Sure. In my case? Nope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
But if you want to end this petty "debate" with "I am more basketball savvy than HOF basketball players/coaches." That is your prerogative and you are welcome to it.

If a skydiving expert told you to jump out a plane without a parachute, and that you'd be fine, would you believe them? Obviously an extreme example of my point, but I'm trying to illustrate it... later!
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:03 PM   #64
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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So this tell us that Stockton statistically had his fingers in on more of the Jazz offense than Jordan did the Bulls offense. Is that believable?

No. Because your not factoring all the times a player was open because of an MJ double team. Not factoring in that MJ's 2 points scored were tougher baskets where as a Stockton assist could simply of been passing the ball to someone else hitting a tough shot.

Literally, I guess. More valuable? No. Points + Assists = total point is seriously just stupid. I honestly thought that went without saying. Curious now as to how many people actually believe that. Calderon would be almost as valuable to an offense as Carmelo Anthony
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:04 PM   #65
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
No. Because your not factoring all the times a player was open because of an MJ double team. Not factoring in that MJ's 2 points scored were tougher baskets where as a Stockton assist could simply of been passing the ball to someone else hitting a tough shot.

Literally, I guess. More valuable? No. Points + Assists = total point is seriously just stupid. I honestly thought that went without saying. Curious now as to how many people actually believe that. Calderon would be almost as valuable to an offense as Carmelo Anthony
Rose never gets doubled team?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:06 PM   #66
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
No. Because your not factoring all the times a player was open because of an MJ double team. Not factoring in that MJ's 2 points scored were tougher baskets where as a Stockton assist could simply of been passing the ball to someone else hitting a tough shot.

Literally, I guess. More valuable? No. Points + Assists = total point is seriously just stupid. I honestly thought that went without saying. Curious now as to how many people actually believe that. Calderon would be almost as valuable to an offense as Carmelo Anthony
Sure, that's true. Or Stockton could have made a great pass that most other PGs wouldn't have made.

Or Jordan could have made a layup. ANd that's not a difficult two points at all.

The tired argument works both ways.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #67
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
If a skydiving expert told you to jump out a plane without a parachute, and that you'd be fine, would you believe them? Obviously an extreme example of my point, but I'm trying to illustrate it... later!
That's actually textually retarded.

It isn't as if these HOF players are the ONLY ones saying it. It's resonating with nearly every informed NBA analyst.

So no, your example doesn't work because it relies on a flawed statement from the skydiving "expert" and it presupposes that the skydiver is wrong. A skydiving expert would say "You need a parachute" just like an intelligent analyst would say "Rose is a legit MVP candidate".

If you gotta peace because you can't keep up, go ahead.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #68
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by 2010splash
Dirk is one of the worst rebounding PF's ever.
Name 5 guys who average 25+ points and 10+ rebounds per game in the playoffs, regardless of their position.

Oh sh*t, there aren't even 5 other guys.



Next time you prop up your guy.. at least get your facts straight.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #69
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by Rose
Rose never gets doubled team?

Jesus Christ. I'm not even talking about Rose anymore. Strickly points + assists don't equal eachother out. 20\10 doesn't = 40 points.

Not even sure if you were serious or just being a dick there
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by jasonresno
Sure, that's true. Or Stockton could have made a great pass that most other PGs wouldn't have made.

Or Jordan could have made a layup. ANd that's not a difficult two points at all.

The tired argument works both ways.

EXACTLY!!!!. Therefore we both just proved the stat would have MAJOR flaws on both sides. Rose could be doing it ALL or doing NOTHING. Calderon the same. John Stockton the same. Any PG the same.

So why would we be stupid enough to say points + assists = X amount of points?.

This wasn't even against Rose. Simply against the statement.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:10 PM   #71
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Jesus Christ. I'm not even talking about Rose anymore. Strickly points + assists don't equal eachother out. 20\10 doesn't = 40 points.

Not even sure if you were serious or just being a dick there
I think Both.

The argument works both ways I think. But you can't deny the fact he makes the offense run. No one else can create their own shot. Sure other guys could succeed in this offense, but Rose is the one doing it.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:10 PM   #72
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chris bosh's biggest contribution to basketball might be the gifs hes in
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:11 PM   #73
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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chris bosh's biggest contribution to basketball might be the gifs hes in
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:11 PM   #74
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

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Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
EXACTLY!!!!. Therefore we both just proved the stat would have MAJOR flaws on both sides. Rose could be doing it ALL or doing NOTHING. Calderon the same. John Stockton the same. Any PG the same.

So why would we be stupid enough to say points + assists = X amount of points?.

This wasn't even against Rose. Simply against the statement.
But statistically his hands have led to 45% of the Bulls scoring. It's a reference stat to show that he's involved on a shit load of their buckets.

I don't even understand why you are debating this. It's factual, it's true. It's a legitimate stat. Rose either scores himself or assist on a Chicago score 45% of the time. Which is higher than EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE NBA. Assists are to guards what rebounds are to big men. They are a metric.

That's absolute fact. There's nothing that can be argued. Jesus, what's your point? That sometimes Rose makes easy assists and sometimes he doesn't? That Stocktons assists were easier than Jordans fadeaways? Or are you saying that stats are completely useless and shouldn't be referenced (this would strengthen Roses MVP candidacy, IMO)? Or are just assists a useless reference?

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Old 03-16-2011, 06:15 PM   #75
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Default Re: MVP is a joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
Sure, that's true. Or Stockton could have made a great pass that most other PGs wouldn't have made.

Or Jordan could have made a layup. ANd that's not a difficult two points at all.

The tired argument works both ways.
No, because Jordan is directly responsible for those points he scored no matter the difficulty. There is always an external factor with assists in terms of contribution no matter what.. sure you could break down the defense and create and open shot, but the player still has to make that shot. There's always a fallacy if you can add up the percentages of everyone's contributions and it would be well over 100%, as it would in this case.

No one is saying assists are useless. But this "45% of the offense" thing is untrue.
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