Why isn't Deng respected more by NBA fans?

[DMAVS41]

Rose will get back in form and still they wont CLEARLY have the best team in the league. As far as Noah is concerned, he is clearly better than Deng. Against good defensive team he actually impacts the game offensively. On the other hand, Deng often disappears. And on the defensive end, Deng always get the assignment of defending the superstars and most of the time, he doesnt do well against them.

And what makes Deng better than Butler?

Dude. Deng is not clearly the 4th best player on that team. If he was, they'd easily be the best team in the league.

Noah vs Boozer vs Deng vs (and I'll even throw in Butler to make you happy) is not clear cut. Therefore your assertion fails...

[DMAVS41]

No. Not at all. I've voiced my displeasure. Had Bulls fans saying I was fickle because I voiced my displeasure with the way he's been performing. You're the clown who said Steve Francis and Gilbert Arenas were better than 2011 Derrick Rose. So I'm fairly positive you never have viewed him as a star, and you're just bitter beer face that he won the 2011 MVP fairly.

Actually I supported Rose for MVP in 2011. Thought he definitely deserved it and argued it all year. Check the old threads.

I've said that Rose, to date, has done nothing more impressive to me than what Gilbert Arenas has done in the regular season. Same thing for Harden last year and Curry last year. And I could go on.

But that isn't the point of this thread.

And you didn't respond to the Kobe comments.

You really don't think prime Kobe is raping the league with this Bulls team? GTFO....

This is exactly why Rose is over-rated and his teammates are under-rated. You give Kobe (the guy you chose to plug in) this team...and you just have no idea about the game if you don't think they would be destroying teams on a nightly basis. It would be a near perfectly crafted team for Kobe. Maybe you are just under-rating Kobe...I have no idea.

But believe me. Kobe in his prime is dominating the league with the best rebounding/defensive team around him with more than capable offensive players as well. Dude would kill it...and then if they ever did play close games late...he'd start using energy to defend and nobody would score on the lineup they could throw out there with Deng and Kobe locking down the perimeter with Noah cleaning up inside.

Like...do you think Rose in 11 was as good as prime Kobe? Please tell me you don't think that as well.

[SamuraiSWISH]

And you didn't respond to the Kobe comments.

You really don't think prime Kobe is raping the league with this Bulls team? GTFO....

I was asking you about current Kobe. I still feel he was the 2nd best player in the league last year. Even though he takes the defense side of the ball off the vast majority of the game, and season. He still has the capabilities of locking people up, see: Kyrie Irving, LeBron in ASG, etc.

On offense, he was absurd. Especially considering his age. Decision making is often selfish, but I've always had that problem with him.

Absolutely that team is better with prime Kobe. He's a top ten player ever, and the 2nd best guard of all-time. I was dying to get him on the team in 2007 when he was saying he wanted to come here. And that was before Gibson, and Noah.

Do the 2011 Bulls with prime Kobe instead of Rose still beat the 2011 Heat? I don't think so. Kobe still doesn't have a true 2nd option playmaker on that squad:

Watson
Kobe
Deng
Boozer
Noah

And yes, Odom is better than Deng. For the simple fact alone, inconsistency aside (which exists in Deng too) his ceiling is dramatically higher. He can rebound better, put up on good nights 25 / 10 / 10 type performances. He can handle the ball, has great court vision, and can make plays for himself and others. Deng doesn't do anything close to that. Ask any Bulls fan who watches every game, Butler is showing more potential than Deng, at a much lower cost.

If you replace Deng with Odom on that 2011 Bulls team with Rose or Kobe on there, they fair better against the Heat.

Kidd
Kobe / Jason Terry
DeShawn Stephenson
Shawn Marion
Chandler

Could beat the 2011 Heat though. Kobe's got defense, toughness, experience and play makers in Kidd, and Terry. Guy's who can create shots for themselves and others CONSISTENTLY. Multiple players who ball without fear. Deng, he gets shook.

[nathanjizzle]

best players on the team are as follows. i only put deng better than butler because deng has been playing great this year. if i were to judge deng for prior years id put butler higher than deng.

rose
joakim
boozer
deng
butler.

[Quickening]

I was asking you about current Kobe. I still feel he was the 2nd best player in the league last year. Even though he takes the defense side of the ball off the vast majority of the game, and season. He still has the capabilities of locking people up, see: Kyrie Irving, LeBron in ASG, etc.

On offense, he was absurd. Especially considering his age. Decision making is often selfish, but I've always had that problem with him.

2nd best player in the league surrounded by Gasol, Howard, Nash and he barely scraped playoffs? I swear you *******s don't even watch basketball... do you just look at ppg? ignoring his shitty efficiency, being a liability defensively 90 percent of the time, shooting his team out of games multiple times and alienating team mates.

How the fck was he better than Durant last year?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

best players on the team are as follows. i only put deng better than butler because deng has been playing great this year. if i were to judge deng for prior years id put butler higher than deng.

rose
joakim
boozer
deng
butler.

How would Bulls fans rank them based on play this year?

[SamuraiSWISH]

2nd best player in the league surrounded by Gasol, Howard, Nash and he barely scraped playoffs?

Do you watch basketball? He played with a spiteful, passive-aggressive, un-happy Dwight Howard. Who already was 70% of the player he was prior to the back injury, AT BEST.

Pau Gasol has been irrelevant in LA since Shannon Brown banged his fiance in 2011. On top of that he was injured a lot as well last season. And then Nash, at 39 years old, couldn't stay healthy, shell of his former offensive self and was irrelevant defensively. Not to mention the coaching changes. It isn't the roster it was hyped to be on PAPER. So don't act like Kobe was playing with prime, healthy, motivated versions of these guys.

I'm pretty confident you didn't watch the games. Kevin Durant didn't do shit without Russell Westbrook. So why is he so much more well regarded than Kobe beyond his more youthful age?

Even though Kobe takes plays off on defense, which I admitted so learn to read, he can still lock a player up on call if he's hyped enough. Durant can't do that. KD's production is also INSANELY padded with free throws via soft calls.

What basketball do YOU watch?!

Kobe alienated himself at the start of the season as the leader with his machismo bull shit, and his gunning for scoring records. But once he settled down and tried to win, he was brilliant. He even had a stretch where he was an amazing facilitator. He dragged a hurt, old, injured, poorly coached team with a malcontent free agent bitch in Dwight Howard into the playoffs kicking and screaming.

To ME, it was more impressive than Kevin Durant's season. Hell, you have parts of the OKC fan base who argue Westbrook is actually their best player. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's definitively the 2nd best player in the league?

Fukk outta here, kiddo. Watch the game, decide for yourself.

[tpols]

Deng, Boozer and Noah are all around the same level.. all high quality players BUT theyre very redundant. All defensive, and rebounding specialists. Pretty good passers as well. But below average scoring. A stacked team is well rounded and they dont provide any dependable scoring/creation especially in the playoffs. That matters.

Mo Williams is a worse impact player than Deng on an average team but he would boost this Bulls team more than Deng does if he took his place.

[tpols]

Pau Gasol has been irrelevant in LA since Shannon Brown banged his fiance in 2011. .

Jesus.. thats cold

[SamuraiSWISH]

Deng, Boozer and Noah are all around the same level.. all high quality players BUT theyre very redundant. All defensive, and rebounding specialists. Pretty good passers as well. But below average scoring. A stacked team is well rounded and they dont provide any dependable scoring/creation especially in the playoffs. That matters.

Mo Williams is a worse impact player than Deng on an average team but he would boost this Bulls team more than Deng does if he took his place.

Exactly. Which roster is better / more well rounded basketball wise that is more fit to beat the current Miami Heat from 2011 to right now?

G - Keith Bogans / CJ Watson
G - Kobe Bryant / Corey Brewer
F - Luol Deng / Kyle Korver
F - Carlos Boozer / Taj Gibson
C - Joakim Noah / Omar Asik

or

G - Jason Kidd / JJ Barea
G - Kobe Bryant / Jason Terry
F - DeShawn Stevenson / Corey Brewer
F - Shawn Marion / Peja Stojakovic
C - Tyson Chandler / Brendon Haywood

I'm purposely leaving out yet another 16 - 20 ppg caliber player in Caron Butler since he didn't make an appearance in the 2011 playoffs due to injury.

Jesus.. thats cold

Am I wrong, doe?!

[tpols]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player. That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row... but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.

[SamuraiSWISH]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player.

Agreed. Me neither. But that wasn't the point in what I was asking. The point was that Dallas roster is not only more talented, it's more well rounded, and even MORE important it isn't mentally weak or shook outside of each team's best player. Who am I kidding, Dirk is shook too. See him getting bukkaked as a #1 seed by an 8th seed Baron Davis / Stephen Jackson led squad in 2007.

That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row...

Agreed. They shouldn't have lost that game 2 when they were up HUGE. And then they kicked Dallas ass in that game 3. If they don't choke, and if LeBron doesn't disappear in game 2 ... the series was a wrap.

That's why I say Miami lost it more so than Dallas won it. It's my opinion. It won't be popular, and I'm not trying to disrespect a win. But I just feel flat out Miami was better. LeBron's softness aside.

but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.

Terry is a play maker, and big shot maker. Outside of Rose, Chicago didn't have anyone with those kind of cajones. Deng isn't as brazen as Marion. He gets intimidated by LeBron. He's been routinely punked by him since HS.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly. Which roster is better / more well rounded basketball wise that is more fit to beat the current Miami Heat from 2011 to right now?

G - Keith Bogans / CJ Watson
G - Kobe Bryant / Corey Brewer
F - Luol Deng / Kyle Korver
F - Carlos Boozer / Taj Gibson
C - Joakim Noah / Omar Asik

or

G - Jason Kidd / JJ Barea
G - Kobe Bryant / Jason Terry
F - DeShawn Stevenson / Corey Brewer
F - Shawn Marion / Peja Stojakovic
C - Tyson Chandler / Brendon Haywood

I'm purposely leaving out yet another 16 - 20 ppg caliber player in Caron Butler since he didn't make an appearance in the 2011 playoffs due to injury.


Am I wrong, doe?!

It depends, because if Dirk had played as badly as Rose...the Mavs lose in 5 or 6...even with Lebron choking.

But that isn't the point of this debate at all.

Kobe last year was not the 2nd best player in the league last year.

But, put 2009 Kobe on the 11 Bulls and they win the title...or at least beat the Heat.

Put 2009 Kobe on the Bulls this year and they are big favorites to win unless Wade gets back to prime (doubtful)...

I also think you guys really undervalue what Deng can do offensively. He can make more types of shots than you give him credit for.

He's clearly a better player than a guy like Terry...and it's not clear at all that Noah and Boozer and Butler are better than him...that's just silly.

Deng is simply the perfect small forward next to Rose. Because once you start putting guys like Melo, George, and Durant next to Rose...it ceases to be Rose's team as those guys are all as good or better than Rose.

So what player are you taking over Deng that is reasonable? You guys think 17/7/3 small forwards that play the kind of defense Deng does just exist everywhere?

[DMAVS41]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player. That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row... but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.

Marion put up 14/6/2 on 48/0/82 shooting splits against the Heat in the Finals

Deng put up 17/7/2 on 42/41/92 shooting splits against the Heat in the ECF

Acting like Deng was irrelevant and Marion was this key guy is just not accurate at all. Deng's play went without notice because Rose's choking and inept play dominated the narrative. If the Bulls had won that series...you'd be sitting here talking about Deng stepping up.

And what prevented them from winning? Rose.

[kshutts1]

So is it time, yet, for my favorite part of the day? Deng trades?!