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Old 01-20-2013, 12:23 AM   #1
plowking
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Default Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

I'm a huge Wade fan, but at 23, you have Harden who is a more polished player in my opinion then Wade was/is.

Is James Harden truly talented enough to become a top 25/30 player like Wade is? Even at such a young age hes a better shooter, FT shooter and generally more offensively polished player than Wade. Not as good in the post, rebounder or playmaker, but that is generally something he can work on. Same with his defense.

Which base is more important to have as a player? The polished skillset like Harden does, or in the case of Wade, being better at everything else, and already having a set of moves that can get you 25+ points on a given night anyway?

I think its interesting to look at them as players. Both have nearly identical physical traits, but have turned out two different players. Which do you appreciate more, and believe has a better chance of higher success?
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Like both of these guys but wade just seemed more sick to me. Dwade athletic finishes>>> Harden is still very young and he will have a healthier career so he has plenty of opportunity to get to that level
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Wade was just better. Harden might be more polished (Im not certain thats true) but he wasn't really much if any better at anything because of it. A better shooter for sure, but not a better scorer overall.
Wade developed so fast. From an all star in the first half of the 05 season, then a top 5 player by the 05 playoffs, to an all time great player by the end of 06 and beggining of 07.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

I dunno if it's just me but Wade was waaay more athletic. Faster, quicker, more explosive, played above the rim more. Harden is the better shooter but even than I don't think he get's into the lane like D.Wade did. Wade used his physical tools perfectly for defense too. Really at this point the only thing Harden does better to me is shoot the ball. He's more crafty like a Manu where as D.Wade was the explosive player that had a good handle and could get others involved and play great D.

If I had to bet on it I'd say Harden doesn't end up as good as Wade was individually. Wade at his peak is one of the greatest we've seen.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Wade.

Wade was pretty nice at 23 years old (he turned 23 in the middle of his sophomore season of 2004-2005).

And Wade was only 24 during his 2006 playoff run. It was amazing. I don't think Harden will be capable of that next year...or ever.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
I dunno if it's just me but Wade was waaay more athletic. Faster, quicker, more explosive, played above the rim more. Harden is the better shooter but even than I don't think he get's into the lane like D.Wade did. Wade used his physical tools perfectly for defense too. Really at this point the only thing Harden does better to me is shoot the ball. He's more crafty like a Manu where as D.Wade was the explosive player that had a good handle and could get others involved and play great D.

If I had to bet on it I'd say Harden doesn't end up as good as Wade was individually. Wade at his peak is one of the greatest we've seen.
+imaginaryrep I agree dude have you seen how hard he would go to the rim and dunk too ? He was pretty underrated as a dunker (he does **** up sometimes and go too hard and the ball repels of the rim like a bullet) STILL MY FAVORITE POSTER OF ALL TIME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2sOjr5-Taw
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
I dunno if it's just me but Wade was waaay more athletic. Faster, quicker, more explosive, played above the rim more. Harden is the better shooter but even than I don't think he get's into the lane like D.Wade did. Wade used his physical tools perfectly for defense too. Really at this point the only thing Harden does better to me is shoot the ball. He's more crafty like a Manu where as D.Wade was the explosive player that had a good handle and could get others involved and play great D.

If I had to bet on it I'd say Harden doesn't end up as good as Wade was individually. Wade at his peak is one of the greatest we've seen.

Thats really what it comes down to, its why you take Wade.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red1
Like both of these guys but wade just seemed sicker to me. Dwade athletic finishes>>> Harden is still very young and he will have a healthier career so he has plenty of opportunity to get to that level

Nah. Wade was more flashy back then, but Harden is the better finisher at the rim so far this year.

Wade 2004-05:

Rim: 58.9%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2005/


Harden 2012-13:

Rim: 66.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

What is surprising is that Wade had a superior mid range, despite it being awkward, compared to Harden. Wade actually was the better jump shooter overall even though Harden is superior at the 3, he is pretty horrible at the midrange. Could be an off season, but he never was that good at mid range. Harden is the better FT shooter tho.

But it'll be interesting to see what Harden could do as the years go on. Wade at that age was the better all around player, but Harden is the better scorer. That floppy euro step is unstoppable.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

I don't think these two are all that similar at all ... not even their physiques or structures. Wade is like 2 inches shorter, but longer. Harden is stockier and built like a bigger Baron Davis.

Harden being a more polished player at the same age doesn't make him better, in fact it makes him worse. He has no where left to improve. Wade had more innate natural ability.

I think Harden's game is smoother. But I also don't think he can murk a high level defense at such a young age as Wade did to the 2005, and 2006 Pistons. Harden has proven to struggle at times against elite, half court set defenses.

Harden's only real advantage over Wade of the same age is his jumper. Everywhere else he's clearly the inferior player. And as we know, Wade still had room to grow. It's a shame injury cut short his dominant 2007 season. And Wade's 2009 season is along with Kobe's 2003 season the most MJ like season performances for a shooting guard since Jordan retired.

What Harden is doing is nice, but not as nice as young Wade. Wade produced more, had higher ceiling, was way more athletic, and rose to the challenge of better competition.

In terms of comparison, I see Westbrook as a more logical comparison to Wade. Or even though he has been disappointing thus far, I see John Wall as being a similar player.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlonzoGOAT
+imaginaryrep I agree dude have you seen how hard he would go to the rim and dunk too ? He was pretty underrated as a dunker (he does **** up sometimes and go too hard and the ball repels of the rim like a bullet) STILL MY FAVORITE POSTER OF ALL TIME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2sOjr5-Taw

His blocks too. He had that quick explosive jump to get up there and throw some shots back in somebody's face.

Harden reminds me of Pierce physically. When he drives he looks more crafty, uses that basketball IQ to knife through a D. Wade reminds you of LeBron, early Kobe etc. in the way that he just was quicker and more explosive than the guy who's guarding him.

Harden = deceptively athletic to me where as Wade came off freakish and was a highlight waiting to happen.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micku
Nah. Wade was more flashy back then, but Harden is the better finisher at the rim so far this year.

Wade 2004-05:

Rim: 58.9%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2005/


Harden 2012-13:

Rim: 66.0%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

What is surprising is that Wade had a superior mid range, despite it being awkward, compared to Harden. Wade actually was the better jump shooter overall even though Harden is superior at the 3, he is pretty horrible at the midrange. Could be an off season, but he never was that good at mid range. Harden is the better FT shooter tho.

But it'll be interesting to see what Harden could do as the years go on. Wade at that age was the better all around player, but Harden is the better scorer. That floppy euro step is unstoppable.
stats are useless in this case. watching one game for each player automatically tells you who is sicker at the rim
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
I don't think these two are all that similar at all ... not even their physiques or structures. Wade is like 2 inches shorter, but longer. Harden is stockier and built like a bigger Baron Davis.

Exact same wingspan, exact same height in shoes, both mid 30's verticals, similar speed recorded in the sprints at pre draft. Both big, bulky 2 guards. They are hardly different.

Quote:
Harden being a more polished player at the same age doesn't make him better, in fact it makes him worse. He has no where left to improve. Wade had more innate natural ability.

He can still improve on his post game, rebounding, playmaking, etc. He just started off with a different foundation coming into the league, which is what I mention, and ask which is better. Clearly you think Wade's way is better.

Quote:
I think Harden's game is smoother. But I also don't think he can murk a high level defense at such a young age as Wade did to the 2005, and 2006 Pistons. Harden has proven to struggle at times against elite, half court set defenses.

Agreed. Its much harder to handle a more explosive, agile player like Wade IMO as well.


Quote:
What Harden is doing is nice, but not as nice as young Wade. Wade produced more, had higher ceiling, was way more athletic, and rose to the challenge of better competition.

All numbers point to them being similar athletes, if anything Harden being slightly better. Maybe Wade has a better knack for applying his numbers to on court performance?
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
His blocks too. He had that quick explosive jump to get up there and throw some shots back in somebody's face.

Harden reminds me of Pierce physically. When he drives he looks more crafty, uses that basketball IQ to knife through a D. Wade reminds you of LeBron, early Kobe etc. in the way that he just was quicker and more explosive than the guy who's guarding him.

Harden = deceptively athletic to me where as Wade came off freakish and was a highlight waiting to happen.
I agree with everything you said and the bold is a big difference too I don't see harden ever becoming the best shot blocking guard or comparing to him (imo D-Wade). And my favorite playoff performance describes what you said about wade in your second paragraph :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VovlaSMsbGY

so beautiful
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by red1
stats are useless in this case. watching one game for each player automatically tells you who is sicker at the rim

I disagree. The eye test just shows that Wade was quicker and stronger with his dunks or flashy with his lay ups. But he isn't better. That's where the eye test fails due to statistical facts. Being flashy and quicker doesn't equal production. If Harden was the better percentage at the rim, isn't he the better finisher?

I would say the same thing of Wade if he was better. LeBron that same year was 72.5% at the rim. While stats could be misleading, I don't think it is in this case. Harden is the better finisher. Wade is just more flashy.

Same thing with the shooting aspect of the game. While Harden has a more polish form, he didn't make the amount of jumpshots that Wade did that year. Harden is the better FT shooter tho. Wade had the better jumpshooting percentage.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micku
I disagree. The eye test just shows that Wade was quicker and stronger with his dunks or flashy with his lay ups. But he isn't better. That's where the eye test fails due to statistical facts. Being flashy and quicker doesn't equal production. If Harden was the better percentage at the rim, isn't he the better finisher?

I would say the same thing of Wade if he was better. LeBron that same year was 72.5% at the rim. While stats could be misleading, I don't think it is in this case. Harden is the better finisher. Wade is just more flashy.

Same thing with the shooting aspect of the game. While Harden has a more polish form, he didn't't make the amount of jumpshots that Wade did that year. Harden is the better FT shooter tho.
I am too crunk to think but there must be some context to the stats. Common sense tells me that young wade is the better finisher and harden is the superior jumpshooter and I will go with common sense over your stats that try to say otherwise
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