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Old 04-01-2009, 02:24 PM   #31
QUIZZLE
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

how about Travis Fisher and Leigh Bodden of the current Detroit Lions powerhouse?
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Consider me convinced.

You didnt say much of anything. In fact you spoke more on how Deion is the better overall player but that not being the topic of the matter. When the hell did I even imply Deion the player here? Its pretty damn obvious I'm speaking solely on Deions ability to cover in football vs Aso. So most of your post was meaningless because you were addressing things I never even put out there. Your whole thinking is that I'm speaking highly of Deion in regards to Aso based on his playmaking ability overall as a player. Why? Dunno. Beats me. Then the end of your post was speaking on how Aso covered recievers. You realize Deion did that times 2? He pretty much made the "shut down corner" label popular to say. Only he was one of the few who really actually shut down the opposition and not just recievers but changed passing offenses in how they approached him. Much like teams did LT (no the real LT not that fraud in SD) in his heyday.

Like i said Aeneas Williams was doing what everyone including yourself is salivating over Aso for doing. Aso gets props and all but if you're gonna say he covered as good as Deion then you need to tell me how much better a cover corner Aso was than Aeneas Williams. Like forreal. Convince me there and maybe we can try Deion and Aso being on the same playing field when it comes to covering. Otherwise it falls totally on deaf ears.

Quote:
but I'm not buying that he has had a more dominant two years than Namdi has had as a corner.

You were deprived of Deion back then or maybe didnt pay as close attention to him then as you do Aso now supposedly. Ah well.
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

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Originally Posted by Carbine
Better play-maker is Deion.... but I'm not buying that he has had a more dominant two years than Namdi has had as a corner. Your job ends as a corner when the ball is either incomplete, intercepted, complete and the ball-carrier is taken down. Scouts don't look at a corner and see how well his juking ability is, or how well he makes people miss, they judge him on his hips, his ball-skills, his speed, hands, technique, etc....
This is not entirely true...

When Bill Parcells drefted Terrance Newman with the 5th overall pick he said that the reason Newman was such a no-brainer for Dallas was because he was a killer at punt return and Newman broke all of Kansas State's school return records...he was a "play-maker"...

here is a Newman's college highlight reel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJoT-...eature=related

what do you see there?...A bunch of punt returns...he even had some WR work in there...granted scouts that are serious will pick apart every game he played in school but that is the intitial attraction...THE BIG PLAYS

Newman was considered the best CB in the draft because he was supposed to be a huge playmaker...similiar to Deion...and Dallas fans thought they were gonna see alot of TDs from this guy...

unfortunatly Parcells was always too scared to use him at PR much because of injury reasons...I think Newman has only scored 1 TD from a PR in Dallas...and that had some Dallas fans puzzled because we thought that we drafted him to use asa killer PR guy like Parcells told us...

Early in Newman's career with Dallas he begged the coaches for not only more PRs but he also wanted to play WR...he felt he wasn't being used like he should be...and so did alot of the fans...Parcell's conservative ways grew tiresome on all of us...he was scared to take risks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
The guy has let up an average of around 0.5 receptions per game the last two years. He was targeted almost TWICE as less as the second least-targeted corner this past year.
I think I remember reading that Aso was targeted an average of 2 times a game last season...and they said no CB has been targeted less in the past 10 years...(hmm...who was around 10 years ago that could have had less targets???)

I can remeber a Monday Night game with Dallas were in the 4th quarter Madden started talking about how Deion had never been tested the entire game...and then he went on a big rant about it and showed a bunch of replays of the QB taking the snap and then never even looking to Deion's side of the feild...he did that the ENTIRE GAME...

Madden said he felt bad for Deion because he thought Deion was getting really bored out there...

He got targeted ZERO times that Monday Night...

Deion is the ONLY CB I have ever seen where teams game planned around him and OPENLY ADMITTED IT BEFORE THE GAME!!!

Instead of "we are not scared of to test Deion"...it was "we have alot of respect for Deion and do not plan on throwing his direction"...

I don't think you see that with Aso...where QBs play entire games without looking at him at all...but maybe he did have a few games like that last year, I didn't watch him that much...but I doubt it.

Deion had entire years of being ignored and the few times that he did get tested he made the QB pay for it...
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

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Originally Posted by Dasher


He was that deal back in the day.

Damn right he was. One of my favorite Steelers ever.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

They look for that other stuff in a player, yes... but that has nothing to do with your ability to play corner - it's just bonus if the corner can return punts, kicks, or whatever. But when they break down the corner aspect of things, it's not about their ability to make people miss in the open field.

Deion the corner vs. Aso the corner.... best two years, they are on the same level. Aso is this eras Deion but has to play with the rules that benefits the wideouts. Deion didn't have to put up with that in his prime. These numbers Aso it putting up these past two years, I highly doubt Deion is putting up inarguable better numbers. Giving up around 0.5 receptions in a two year span is hard to beat. Almost impossible and godly for someone to put up inarguable better stats then that. You really think Deion gave up like 0.25 receptions a game in a two year span on something? THAT would be almost impossible. And that's what he would have to average to be inarguably better than Aso is now because of the rules and how they helped Deion and don't help Aso.

Kinda like the hand-check vs. no hand-check thing is basketball. Guys who score a ton now on the perimeter wouldn't be as succesful with a legal forearm in their chest riding them to the hoop.
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:05 PM   #36
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
They look for that other stuff in a player, yes... but that has nothing to do with your ability to play corner - it's just bonus if the corner can return punts, kicks, or whatever. But when they break down the corner aspect of things, it's not about their ability to make people miss in the open field.

Deion the corner vs. Aso the corner.... best two years, they are on the same level. Aso is this eras Deion but has to play with the rules that benefits the wideouts. Deion didn't have to put up with that in his prime. These numbers Aso it putting up these past two years, I highly doubt Deion is putting up inarguable better numbers. Giving up around 0.5 receptions in a two year span is hard to beat. Almost impossible and godly for someone to put up inarguable better stats then that. You really think Deion gave up like 0.25 receptions a game in a two year span on something? THAT would be almost impossible. And that's what he would have to average to be inarguably better than Aso is now because of the rules and how they helped Deion and don't help Aso.

Kinda like the hand-check vs. no hand-check thing is basketball. Guys who score a ton now on the perimeter wouldn't be as succesful with a legal forearm in their chest riding them to the hoop.

1. I think it could be argued that it was harder for CBs back in Deion's time...WRs like Irvin were allowed to push off CBs to get catches...Irvin was notorious for it...WRs can't get away with that today, it was more physical back then...

2. It is a shame that there are no "unofficial" stats for Deion like people keep with CBs today...but as a Dallas fan I can remember multiple games where Deion got targeted ZERO times...and it upset me because he was my favorite player and entire games would go by with him getting no action at all...in fact most of the time even the punters kicked the ball out of bounds, so he got ZERO targets there as well...

I wouldn't be shocked at all if he had years with around 0.25 rpg...In fact, Deion's first couple years in Dallas I can't even remember him giving up a single pass...it could be lower than 0.25...maybe even something ridiculous like 3 receptions the entire year...but that is just speculation...

I can remember Deion falling down on the feild with his turf toe injury later on and on that play he did give up a bomb TD pass because the QB noiced he fell...and then after that injury it did seem as though he had slowed a bit...

But after his DPOY with San Fran, he came to Dallas, and like 2-3 years after that alot of QBs just plain didn't even bother to look his way the entire game...

This is really pointless to argue though because the stats do not exist I guess...but in my eyes Deion is/was the ONLY true shut down CB the NFL has ever seen...when they say he took away his side of the feild they were not kidding around...

you can kind of see how after his amazing year in 1994 he got ignored completely just by looking at his sudden drops in INTs and tackles from 1995-1997

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SandDe00.htm

year/team/INTs/tackles

1989 ATL 5/ 39
1990 ATL 3/ 50
1991 ATL 6/ 49
1992 ATL 3/ 66
1993 ATL 7/ 34
1994 SFO 6/ 34 *DPOY
1995 DAL 2/ 25
1996 DAL 2/ 31
1997 DAL 2/ 30

1998 DAL 5/ 22
1999 DAL 3/ 40
2000 WAS 4/ 38
2004 BAL 3/ 7
2005 BAL 2/ 27

from 1995-1997 he basically has the same numbers as he had in Baltimore at the age of 38 WHEN HE WAS ONLY A NICKLE BACK!!!

it was after his year amazing year in San Fran (where he won the SB) that teams decided to just completely ignore him all together...

those 3 years would be similiar to the year Aso had last year or I would bet they are even better...and that is just pure CB play...

Aso is similiar:

2006 Oakland Raiders 8/ 48
2007 Oakland Raiders 1/ 32
2008 Oakland Raiders 1/ 33


stud year and then a sudden drop in ints and tackles...

Last edited by -primetime- : 04-01-2009 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:12 AM   #37
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

I don't believe for a second that Deion let up 0.25 receptions a game for two years combined. I also don't believe for one second that defense was harder to play back then compared to now. Everybody within the league who has spoken upon it has mentioned that the rules are geared for offensive football. I'll take their word and expertise over you, no offense.

Giving up 0.25 receptions a game is just too hard to believe.

Years he faced Jerry Rice:

'91 the Falcons played the 49'ers and Jerry had 13 receptions for 180 yards and one score.

'92 the Falcons played the 49'ers and Jerry put up a combined 11 receptions for over 200 yards and three touchdowns. Obviously it would be wrong to say Deion was responsible for every one of these receptions, but it's not crazy to think at least 70% of that production, Deion was on him.

'93 they played twice and Rice had 9 receptions for almost 150 yards in two games against the Falcons.

in '95 when Deion was on the Cowboys they played once and Jerry had 5 receptions for 161 and a score.

'96 Jerry had 5 receptions for 49 yards.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:43 AM   #38
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

Deion took his side of the feild...Rice got those yards pickin on the other CB...

Same with Irvin...in the 94 Championship game Irvin had a monster game...none of his catches were on Deion's side...


look Carbine, I don't know how old you are...but I grew up watching the guy...


he was a "BLACK HOLE"...he didn't go for the deflection, he went for the PICK...


honestly Deion is a freak of nature...his lower body is not built like other CBs...

It is rumored that he could run a 4.8 BACKWARD!!!

he is the only corner that NEVER had to give a cushion...


coaches never glued him on WRs...so when you see games where Rice and Irvin had big numbers it was because they were pickin on the weak CB that Deion left...


kinda like Eddie Royal pickin on Hall because Aso was on the other side...

Eddie had a HUGE game against Oakland...but none of it was against Aso...


you think 0.25 is ridiculous...I am telling you that Deion saw MANY games where he was targeted ZERO times...he wasn't looked at PERIOD...


throw his ability to make a play on the ball and it is no contest...Deion wins....
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:06 AM   #39
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

This is an article from 1993.... it clearly states that Deion and Jerry play against each other. You have to bursh up on your history of your favorite player.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_14655148/

So if Deion played Jerry this game, it's probably a good indication that this was the case in all of their meetings.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:27 AM   #40
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Default Re: the NFL Network's top 10 CB tandems

Awsome article...I love reading stuff like that...

that was when Deion was with Atlanta....against the greatest combo EVER...

Montana/Rice

so alright....they got him a few times...


I also read this from your link:

Quote:
THE LAST STORY: Sanders also played offense, catching a pass, running a dozen patterns. He worked with a bad groin. They gave him medicine to kill the pain and once they called timeout rather than take him out of the game. Everywhere you looked, Deion Sanders: consoling Norm Johnson when his missed field-goal attempt ended a streak of 26 straight; congratulating Andre Rison on a touchdown catch; talking big-brother talk to a rookie; dancing, hand in hand, with Johnson when his field goal won the game, 27-24; saying kind words, to the 49ers' Dexter Carter, whose fumbles let Atlanta win: "Man, he was hit. An octopus with eight arms couldn't have held on to that ball."


so Deion had an injury...

let me ask you this Carb...who would you tke in their prime???
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