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Old 05-14-2019, 11:31 PM   #16
Ben Simmons 25
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by elementally morale
Durant is a better defender and a better 1 on 1 player.

But basketball is 5 on 5. And Curry is a LOT better at that. If you want a team... you select Curry. If you already have a team, go with Durant.

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Old 05-14-2019, 11:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by Bronbron23
I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

Chris Paul balled out in that game 6 and they still lost. I don't care what anyone says, that one game vs Houston alone should tell you how dangerous this team is without KD.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.

It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.


Huh?

You play to win the game. If you are the most impactful and most important... then you are the best.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by elementally morale
I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.

Count me as 3rd person who believes Curry has been best player in the NBA since 2015. The problem is Curry is too soft to realize he has racist enemies and needs a tough team like Zach Randolph/Tony Allen Grizzlies to prevent teams from intentionally injuring his teammates. link
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by Ben Simmons 25
It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.
If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

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Originally Posted by imdaman99
If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?

Impossible to say but Wilt definitely doesn't get more than Bill. No way.

"But his teammates doe!"

I would say most of the time, throughout NBA history, that's a true statement.

Not in the case of Bill Russell. He won in high school, he won in the NCAA, and he won 11/13 in the NBA. That's more than just "lucky career with great teammates." They went to shit the moment he retired.


His defense and ball sharing was basically the equivalent of what we see today out of Steph, except Steph does it on offense.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdonovan
I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.



To be honest though, these guys could watch an entire season of Warriors basketball and still not pick up on those types of things. So... yeah.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:20 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdonovan
I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.

qft. love the bolded part. it also happens when guys gamble for a steal.

@ OP, can you name some players you'd think the Warriors would be better off with in place of Durant?
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

Quote:
Originally Posted by elementally morale
I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.
Holy shit, the levels of narcism. Everyone with half a brain has been saying this for a long while. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard or you might hurt yourself.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronbron23
I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

I've never seen someone so consistently wrong always be so adamant on their own opinion lol.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:14 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

As I've said before, KD is the worst's best insurance policy. Their record without him the past 3 years is a damning argument against the idea that he is carrying them.

Last edited by Phoenix : 05-15-2019 at 09:19 AM.
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