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Old 09-19-2017, 03:44 PM   #16
tmacattack33
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
In other words, OP looked up Barkley's stats and came to the conclusion he was dominant

Dantley has some of the most efficient scoring seasons of all time, yet no one considers him a more dominant scorer than Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Shaq. Hell even LeBron. Stats are pretty to look at it, but nobody who watched then and now honestly believes Charles is greater than those guys as a scorer. Much less the "most dominant scorer of the modern era"

Not true. Barkley's game was great on a stat sheet and when watching him. His handle and footwork were maybe the best we've ever seen from a PF.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:05 PM   #17
Round Mound
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by FireDavidKahn
Definitely impressive

But 35 games isn't nearly enough to say he would have kept it up all season long.

Players go through hot and cold streaks.

Compare it to what Shaq did from 93/94 - 02/03:

28.1 on 19.3.

Barkley one of the best, but Shaq > Barkley

Barkley could hit freethrows was a more dynamic scorer, better in the clutch, better rebounder and better passer. Barkley 86-93 > Shaq. After that probably Shaq.

Last edited by Round Mound : 09-19-2017 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
Barkley could hit freethrows was a more dynamic scorer, better in the clutch, better rebounder and better passer. Barkley 86-93 > Shaq. After that probably Shaq.

Shaq in 2000 is easily better than Barkley ever was.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
Shaq in 2000 is easily better than Barkley ever was.

Give 1990 Barkley Shaq´s Team and You Get Similar Results. Barkley was more skilled than Shaq, a better ft shooter, a better rebounder, a better passer and a better clutch player.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
Give 1990 Barkley Shaq´s Team and You Get Similar Results. Barkley was more skilled than Shaq, a better ft shooter, a better rebounder, a better passer and a better clutch player.

Shaq was a far superior defensive player. Elite on both ends of the floor. Easily better.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
Shaq was a far superior defensive player. Elite on both ends of the floor. Easily better.

Shaq was a better defender in his Magic days when he was thinner etc in the Lakes and Heat he just had better teams. He could never beat 80s based drafted player teams in the 90s. He had to wait for all of them to get old. Barkley was a more cerebral player, far more skilled, better in the clutch, better ft shooter, better rebounder and better passer. Had PRIME Charles played with Penny, Kobe and Wade he would have had easy rings in the 00s. Barkley played in an era where you had to earn your titles.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
Shaq was a better defender in his Magic days when he was thinner etc in the Lakes and Heat he just had better teams. He could never beat 80s based drafted player teams in the 90s. He had to wait for all of them to get old. Barkley was a more cerebral player, far more skilled, better in the clutch, better ft shooter, better rebounder and better passer. Had PRIME Charles played with Penny, Kobe and Wade he would have had easy rings in the 00s. Barkley played in an era where you had to earn your titles.

No...2000 was Shaq's best defensive year.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Did op went Durant here and is actually roundmound?
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
No...2000 was Shaq's best defensive year.

With all that help, Its easy to have a great defensive year. Give PRIME Barkley a balanced defensive and offensive team and you sill what will happen. Plus by 00 Hakeem, D-Rob and Ewing where all passed their primes. He faced nobodys at the C position in the 00s.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
With all that help, Its easy to have a great defensive year. Give PRIME Barkley a balanced defensive and offensive team and you sill what will happen. Plus by 00 Hakeem, D-Rob and Ewing where all passed their primes. He faced nobodys at the C position in the 00s.

Shaq is top 10, Barkley isn't.

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Old 09-19-2017, 06:55 PM   #26
Round Mound
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by Smoke117
Shaq is top 10, Barkley isn't.


All Broken Down Statistics Actually Put Barkley At Top 10. So is Shaq.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Mound
Shaq was a better defender in his Magic days when he was thinner etc in the Lakes and Heat he just had better teams. He could never beat 80s based drafted player teams in the 90s. He had to wait for all of them to get old. Barkley was a more cerebral player, far more skilled, better in the clutch, better ft shooter, better rebounder and better passer. Had PRIME Charles played with Penny, Kobe and Wade he would have had easy rings in the 00s. Barkley played in an era where you had to earn your titles.
Shaq shits on fat boy and it's not particularly close. Fat boy is ~15-20 and Shaq is ~5.

Shaq won with Wade in his '14 season and was still an All-Star. '98 Barkley wouldn't have won shit. Shaq was still a beast in the EC rounds.

Fat boy averaged 27/13/5/2/1 on 50% from '91-'94 (can't do '92-'94 because the guy missed the PO's in his PRIME). Shaq averaged 30/15/3/1/2 on 55% during the 3peat.

Lets be real here. Fat boy is an overrated career loser, who didn't/couldn't win shit.

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Originally Posted by Round Mound
All Broken Down Statistics Actually Put Barkley At Top 10. So is Shaq.
You need at least 2 FMVP's to make the top 10, so...
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
In other words, OP looked up Barkley's stats and came to the conclusion he was dominant

Dantley has some of the most efficient scoring seasons of all time, yet no one considers him a more dominant scorer than Jordan, Kobe, Durant or Shaq. Hell even LeBron. Stats are pretty to look at it, but nobody who watched then and now honestly believes Charles is greater than those guys as a scorer. Much less the "most dominant scorer of the modern era"

The motivation for this was not stats. It was watching a few games from that year. The ease with which he split doubles, beat the help defense and got the basket and drew the foul was a thing of beauty. And if he missed the bucket or failed to draw the foul it was just ridiculous how often he was able to follow up his own miss no matter how out of position we was after the first shot.

Obviously career wise Barkley is not a greater or better scorer than Jordan and others, but from a statistical perspective, the first half of 1990-91, pre injury, was some of the highest level scoring ever.

Just for example if we take every season in which Shaq averaged 25+ ppg (94-03) and take his career best figures in a few stats you'll see what I mean.

Shaq's highest ppg over a season was 29.7 in 2000. Barkley was going at 30.8.
Shaq's highest 2pt fg% was .600 in 94. Barkley was going at .644!
Shaq's highest efg% was .599, also in 94. Barkley was going at .613!
Shaq's highest free throw rate per 2pt fga was .684. Barkley was going at .758!

I know I'm comparing half a season for Barkley to full seasons for shaq, but basically he was performing at a higher level in regards to scoring than shaq ever was at any point in his career, by whatever measure you want to use.

When 91 Barkley decided he wanted to score, he succeeded at a higher rate than anyone, and drew the foul at a higher rate than anyone.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

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Originally Posted by AussieSteve
The motivation for this was not stats. It was watching a few games from that year. The ease with which he split doubles, beat the help defense and got the basket and drew the foul was a thing of beauty. And if he missed the bucket or failed to draw the foul it was just ridiculous how often he was able to follow up his own miss no matter how out of position we was after the first shot.

Obviously career wise Barkley is not a greater or better scorer than Jordan and others, but from a statistical perspective, the first half of 1990-91, pre injury, was some of the highest level scoring ever.

Just for example if we take every season in which Shaq averaged 25+ ppg (94-03) and take his career best figures in a few stats you'll see what I mean.

Shaq's highest ppg over a season was 29.7 in 2000. Barkley was going at 30.8.
Shaq's highest 2pt fg% was .600 in 94. Barkley was going at .644!
Shaq's highest efg% was .599, also in 94. Barkley was going at .613!
Shaq's highest free throw rate per 2pt fga was .684. Barkley was going at .758!

I know I'm comparing half a season for Barkley to full seasons for shaq, but basically he was performing at a higher level in regards to scoring than shaq ever was at any point in his career, by whatever measure you want to use.

When 91 Barkley decided he wanted to score, he succeeded at a higher rate than anyone, and drew the foul at a higher rate than anyone.
You know the difference between the two? One of them actually did it for entire seasons.

You want to compare Barkley at his best to Shaq?

Barkley in '91 before injury - 31/10/4/2/1 on 60% (35 games)
Shaq during the 3peat - 30/15/3/1/2 on 55% (58 games)

Shaq in his second season was putting up 29/13/2/1/3 on 60%.

Lets stop this nonsense of comparing a top 5 GOAT to a borderline top 20 player.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:24 PM   #30
Round Mound
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Charles in his prime was as dominating as Shaq inside the 3-pointline. The difference is Shaq could not do anything away from the paint while Barkley had a good mid range shot and could rebound, shoot free throws, create assists and take a last second shot with ease compared to Shaq. Lets look at Barkley´s prime inside the 3-pointline:

As 4th Option Focal "Go To Go Guy" Scorer and Not a 100% Starter (age 21)

1984-85: 54.56% 2-Point FG% /13.96 PPG/9.47 2-Point FGA PG Only(28.6 MPG)

As 2nd Option Focal "Go To Go Guy" Scorer (age 22)

1985-86: 59.83% 2-Point FG% /19.40 PPG/12.08 2-Point FGA PG Only

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As 1st Option Focal "Go to Go Guy" Scorer (ages 23 to 32)

1986-87: 64.34% 2-Point FG%/22.07 PPG/12.25 2-Point FGA PG Only

1987-88: 62.97% 2-Point FG%/26.66 PPG/14.08 2-Point FGA PG Only

1988-89: 63.58% 2-Point FG/24.46 PPG/13.24 2-Point FGA PG Only

1989-90: 63.22% 2-Point FG%/24.42 PPG/13.73 2-Point FGA PG Only

1990-91: 61.36% 2-Point FG%/25.63 PPG/15.10 2-Point FGA PG Only

1991-92: 59.66% 2-Point FG%/21.79 PPG/13.18 2-Point FGA PG Only

1992-93: 56.14% 2-Point FG%/22.93 PPG/15.21 2-Point FGA PG Only

1993-94: 54.15% 2-Point FG%/19.35 PPG/13.35 2-Point FGA PG Only

1994-95: 52.06% 2-Point FG%/19.69 PPG/13.56 2-Point FGA PG Only

1995-96: 53.90% 2-Point FG%/21.15 PPG/13.87 2-Point FGA PG Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As 2nd-3rd Option Focal "Go to Go Guy" Scorer (age 33)

1996-97: 56.88% 2-Point FG%/15.89 PPG/15.3 2-Point FGA PG Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As 4th Option Focal "Go To Go Guy" Scorer (age 34)

1997-98: 51.97% 2-Point FG%/14.4 PPG/9.702-Point FGA PG Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As 2nd Option Focal "Go To Go Guy" Scorer (age 35)

1998-99: 49.48% 2-Point FG%/15.81 PPG/11.36 2-Point FGA PG Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As 3rd Option Focal "Go To Go Guy" Scorer (age 36)

1999-2000: 50.48% 2-Point FG%/13.55 PPG/9.80 2-Point FGA PG Only

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAREER SEASON: 21.6 PPG at 58.13% Two-Point FG% on 12.9 Two-Point FGAs Taken Only

CAREER PLAY-OFFS: 22.5 PPG at 55.13% Two-Point FG% on 14.5 Two-Point FGAs Taken Only

Last edited by Round Mound : 09-19-2017 at 08:29 PM.
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