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Old 09-19-2017, 08:29 PM   #31
RRR3
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Too bad Barkley ruined it by taking 3s when he couldn't shoot them at all
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

tl;dr - Shaq - 4 Rings and 3 FMVP's; Fat boy -
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Barkley fans are cringe as hell. They think the game is played on paper and putting up nice stats is the end all, be all. Has Barkley ever cracked 30+ PPG? No. Why? Can't carry a higher load? If he's THAT efficient, why not crank it up a notch? Right, because that's harder to do.

Barkley was great but he played no D. Obviously didn't give his all. He didn't leave it all on the court. Can't respect a guy like that.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
Barkley fans are cringe as hell. They think the game is played on paper and putting up nice stats is the end all, be all. Has Barkley ever cracked 30+ PPG? No. Why? Can't carry a higher load? If he's THAT efficient, why not crank it up a notch? Right, because that's harder to do.

Barkley was great but he played no D. Obviously didn't give his all. He didn't leave it all on the court. Can't respect a guy like that.
You're right, if anything, these stans are making their idol look bad. Showing that he had glimpses of GOAT level talent but nothing to show for it really brings to question his shit work ethic.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vuvKc5qA6s
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:26 PM   #36
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
tl;dr - Shaq - 4 Rings and 3 FMVP's; Fat boy -

Shaq played with Penny, Kobe, and Wade.

Barkley had nothing similar.
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:12 AM   #37
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elosha
Got to be careful with this kind of analogy. Yes, from a pure stats perspective, CB may have had the most efficient 30 + ppg over a size sample of (only) 35 games. But even assuming (and it's a pretty big assumption) that he could have kept up that that pace in 91 season, anyone who watched basketball during the late 80's and 90's would have a hard time credibly arguing that CB, as great as he was, was a more dominant scorer than MJ.

Basketball cannot simply be a statistical analysis in which the only aspect of a player's performance is evaluated on number-crunching. Advanced Stats have a prominent place - but not the only place - in evaluating performance.

For instance, Barkley was no doubt a skilled and nuanced scorer (far more skilled than a player like Dwight Howard or Shaq , although Shaq was far more skilled than a normal big man), however, CB was still significantly easier to stymie in big playoff games where defense tightens up, than a player like Jordan. MJ's skill, athleticism, and scoring repertoire were all off-the-charts. As a pure scorer, he was always on level higher than CB, "efficiency" notwithstanding.

We are doing ourselves and current and past players a huge disservice by slanting the scoring analysis so heavily in favor of advanced statistics that we ignore actual skill sets, improvisation, creativity, and the ability to rise to the occasion. Both have their place, but we have to balance the analysis, as advanced stats on ISH and elsewhere seem to have gained TOO much importance.

This. Excellent post.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:00 AM   #38
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

A shame that Karl Malone was even better
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Shaq played with Penny, Kobe, and Wade.

Barkley had nothing similar.
Yeah, and Shaq also averaged 30/15/3/1/2 on 55% during the entire 3peat (in the PO's and Finals).

Barkley never even came close.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:08 AM   #40
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Barkley was a better scorer than Malone. If you dont think that then Iverson was a better scorer than Kobe and Kobe a better scorer than Jordan
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Mound
Barkley was a better scorer than Malone. If you dont think that then Iverson was a better scorer than Kobe and Kobe a better scorer than Jordan
You're acting like Malone was never efficient when volume scoring. Dude put up 31 PPG on 63% TS. Chuck never came close to that.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:37 AM   #42
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmacattack33
Not true. Barkley's game was great on a stat sheet and when watching him. His handle and footwork were maybe the best we've ever seen from a PF.

What isn't true?

You're talking about handles and footwork relative to the PF position. I don't disagree. They're impressive.

Still, Charles was not the scorer those guys I mentioned were...I don't want to say that's a FACT, but its pretty ****ing close to one
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:20 PM   #43
Round Mound
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
You're acting like Malone was never efficient when volume scoring. Dude put up 31 PPG on 63% TS. Chuck never came close to that.

Malone was efficient but never as efficient as Barkley (especially in the play-offs)

Shot Made & Missed Diferential Stat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNib-...el_video_title

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/nbaalltimescorers.htm

SHOT MADE/MISS DIFFERENTIAL STAT-
(minimum 15,000 shot attempts)

Unstoppable shot makers (+1 - infinity):

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: +3,367.5
2. Shaquille O'Neal: +3,200.5
3. Wilt Chamberlain: +1,865
4. Charles Barkley: +1,434

5. Robert Parish: +1,314
6. Adrian Dantley: +1,220.5
7. Karl Malone: +888.5
8. Bernard King: +562.5
9. Hakeem Olajuwon: +519.5
10. Walt Bellamy: +488
11. Walter Davis: +443.5
12. Bob Lanier: +431
13. George Gervin: +381.5
14. Alex English: +291
15. Reggie Miller: +263
16. Tim Duncan: +248
17. Dale Ellis: +230.5
18. Larry Bird: +172.5
19. Patrick Ewing: +172.5
20. Michael Jordan: +137.5
21. Kevin Garnett: +0.5

Elite shot makers (0 - negative 500):

22. Dirk Nowitzki: -193.5
23. Ray Allen: -332.5
24. Lou Hudson: -345
25. Moses Malone: -351
26. Scottie Pippen: -371

Good shot makers (negative 501 - negative 1,000):

27. Chris Webber: -508
28. Terry Cummings: -516
29. Calvin Murphy: -531
30. Clyde Drexler: -589.5
31. Oscar Robertson: -604
32. Eddie Johnson: -626
33. Gary Payton: -716
34. Mitch Richmond: -765
35. Paul Pierce: -841
36. Tom Chambers: -879.5
37. Antawn Jamison: -899
38. Michael Finley: -976
39. Jerry West: -1,000

Shot jackers (negative 1,001 - negative 2,000):

40. Vince Carter: -1,126.5
41. Kobe Bryant: -1,212
42. Dominique Wilkins: -1,307
43. Isiah Thomas: -1,317
44. Tracy McGrady: -1,427.5
45. Gail Goodrich: -1,438
46. Cliff Robinson: -1,470.5
47. Rick Barry: -1,622.5
48. Hal Greer: -1,803
49. Dave Bing: -1,845


Shot too much (negative 2,001 - negative infinity)
:

50. Bob Pettit: -2,174
51. Allen Iverson: -2,442.5
52. Elgin Baylor: -2,785
53. John Havlicek: -2,904
54. Elvin Hayes: -2,952.5
55. Dolph Schayes: -3,721
56. Bob Cousy: -4,132

Last edited by Round Mound : 09-21-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:15 PM   #44
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elosha
Got to be careful with this kind of analogy. Yes, from a pure stats perspective, CB may have had the most efficient 30 + ppg over a size sample of (only) 35 games. But even assuming (and it's a pretty big assumption) that he could have kept up that that pace in 91 season, anyone who watched basketball during the late 80's and 90's would have a hard time credibly arguing that CB, as great as he was, was a more dominant scorer than MJ.

Basketball cannot simply be a statistical analysis in which the only aspect of a player's performance is evaluated on number-crunching. Advanced Stats have a prominent place - but not the only place - in evaluating performance.

For instance, Barkley was no doubt a skilled and nuanced scorer (far more skilled than a player like Dwight Howard or Shaq , although Shaq was far more skilled than a normal big man), however, CB was still significantly easier to stymie in big playoff games where defense tightens up, than a player like Jordan. MJ's skill, athleticism, and scoring repertoire were all off-the-charts. As a pure scorer, he was always on level higher than CB, "efficiency" notwithstanding.

We are doing ourselves and current and past players a huge disservice by slanting the scoring analysis so heavily in favor of advanced statistics that we ignore actual skill sets, improvisation, creativity, and the ability to rise to the occasion. Both have their place, but we have to balance the analysis, as advanced stats on ISH and elsewhere seem to have gained TOO much importance.
damn
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Old 09-21-2017, 05:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Seriously... 1991 Barkley may have been the most dominant scorer of the modern era

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
NOW that matters huh?

this idiot loves Kobe actually
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