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Old 07-10-2019, 08:14 PM   #1
LAmbruh
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Exclamation Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Highlights: https://streamable.com/1mrse


crazy H2H comptetion down to the wire


Shaq 31 pts, 13 reb
Francis 44 pts, 6 reb, 11 asts on Kobe
Kobe 5-21 and game winning airball



the amount of gravity that Shaq had on defenses




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Old 07-10-2019, 08:27 PM   #2
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:35 PM   #3
Gus Hemmingway
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by scuzzy

The Kobe Assist™
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Whilst the eye test is a very important in conjunction with analyzing stats, Kobe Bryant's career is proof positive that the eye test lies.

When you hit as many game winning shots as he did, and he did hit a lot of them... it makes people believe you're something you aren't... which in his case, was clutch.

He was definitely fearless and therefore I wouldn't mind him having the ball as opposed to a lot of guys that tense up in those moments, but Kobe wasn't some clutch God.

He missed an absolute shit ton of game winners over the years... WAYYYYYYY more than he made.

But, as it turns out, nostalgia often leads you down the path of remembering the good times, thus creating a false perception, in this case.

Kobe is the most overrated clutch player in the history of the NBA.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:12 PM   #5
stalkerforlife
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon
Whilst the eye test is a very important in conjunction with analyzing stats, Kobe Bryant's career is proof positive that the eye test lies.

When you hit as many game winning shots as he did, and he did hit a lot of them... it makes people believe you're something you aren't... which in his case, was clutch.

He was definitely fearless and therefore I wouldn't mind him having the ball as opposed to a lot of guys that tense up in those moments, but Kobe wasn't some clutch God.

He missed an absolute shit ton of game winners over the years... WAYYYYYYY more than he made.

But, as it turns out, nostalgia often leads you down the path of remembering the good times, thus creating a false perception, in this case.

Kobe is the most overrated clutch player in the history of the NBA.

Oops...

Posted some clutch stats for the playoffs, and I decided to do some more.

I was criticized for using five minutes and margin of five, people also told me to add playmaking as part of the equation.

I do admit creating for your teammates is a huge factor in clutch situations, so I decided to add assists per 36 and turnovers per 36.

"Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,

I will be only talking about Lebron and Kobe, considering these two were heads and shoulders beyond everyone else for their efficiency and volume.

Playoffs:

Lebron

He is 40/106 in clutch situation
His free throw shooting is 49/67
True Shooting is, 49.8%
Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers

Kobe

He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
His free throw shooting is 67/79
His true shooting is 58 %
Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

Lebron

He is 4/23 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 10/14
His true shooting is 31%
Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
TO per 36: 3.7 TO

Kobe

He is 10/20 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 4/5
His true shooting is 56.4%
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

Lebron

17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
32% EFG
43% TS.
Assists per 36: 4.26
TO per 36: 3.1

Kobe

28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
46% EFG
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08
Tbh, I wasn't surprised about the field goals considering Kobe is the much better shooter in the playoffs, but I was shocked to see Kobe as the better playmaker and distributor in crunch time.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:51 PM   #6
LAmbruh
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon
Whilst the eye test is a very important in conjunction with analyzing stats, Kobe Bryant's career is proof positive that the eye test lies.

When you hit as many game winning shots as he did, and he did hit a lot of them... it makes people believe you're something you aren't... which in his case, was clutch.

He was definitely fearless and therefore I wouldn't mind him having the ball as opposed to a lot of guys that tense up in those moments, but Kobe wasn't some clutch God.

He missed an absolute shit ton of game winners over the years... WAYYYYYYY more than he made.

But, as it turns out, nostalgia often leads you down the path of remembering the good times, thus creating a false perception, in this case.

Kobe is the most overrated clutch player in the history of the NBA.
100%
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:01 AM   #7
Shogon
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by stalkerforlife
Oops...

Posted some clutch stats for the playoffs, and I decided to do some more.

I was criticized for using five minutes and margin of five, people also told me to add playmaking as part of the equation.

I do admit creating for your teammates is a huge factor in clutch situations, so I decided to add assists per 36 and turnovers per 36.

"Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,

I will be only talking about Lebron and Kobe, considering these two were heads and shoulders beyond everyone else for their efficiency and volume.

Playoffs:

Lebron

He is 40/106 in clutch situation
His free throw shooting is 49/67
True Shooting is, 49.8%
Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers

Kobe

He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
His free throw shooting is 67/79
His true shooting is 58 %
Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

Lebron

He is 4/23 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 10/14
His true shooting is 31%
Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
TO per 36: 3.7 TO

Kobe

He is 10/20 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 4/5
His true shooting is 56.4%
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

Lebron

17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
32% EFG
43% TS.
Assists per 36: 4.26
TO per 36: 3.1

Kobe

28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
46% EFG
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08
Tbh, I wasn't surprised about the field goals considering Kobe is the much better shooter in the playoffs, but I was shocked to see Kobe as the better playmaker and distributor in crunch time.


Coming from one of the biggest "eye test" proponents on the entire board, I find it laughable that you plagiarized someone else's stat based argument. Haha.

Here's some stats for you...




LeBron's numbers got even better from that second pic. Kobe's... well... nope, lmao.

CLUTCH GOD THO!

EYE TEST THO!!

LMFAO.

The eye test is very useful and not always wrong... but sometimes it is wrong. Kobe's career literally proved that the eye test is not 100% and not an indisputable account of objective reality.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:25 AM   #8
stalkerforlife
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon
Coming from one of the biggest "eye test" proponents on the entire board, I find it laughable that you plagiarized someone else's stat based argument. Haha.

Here's some stats for you...




LeBron's numbers got even better from that second pic. Kobe's... well... nope, lmao.

CLUTCH GOD THO!

EYE TEST THO!!

LMFAO.

The eye test is very useful and not always wrong... but sometimes it is wrong. Kobe's career literally proved that the eye test is not 100% and not an indisputable account of objective reality.

Pathetic.

My numbers were far more telling.

No one cares about meaningless game winners in the east playoffs.

A game winning shot or last 24 seconds is like 1% of clutch importance.

Last 5 minutes and last 2-3 minutes in a close game encapsulates real clutch ability.

Play after play.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:28 AM   #9
stalkerforlife
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon
Coming from one of the biggest "eye test" proponents on the entire board, I find it laughable that you plagiarized someone else's stat based argument. Haha.

Here's some stats for you...




LeBron's numbers got even better from that second pic. Kobe's... well... nope, lmao.

CLUTCH GOD THO!

EYE TEST THO!!

LMFAO.

The eye test is very useful and not always wrong... but sometimes it is wrong. Kobe's career literally proved that the eye test is not 100% and not an indisputable account of objective reality.

Hurts, doesn't it?

Play after play.

Response after response.

Real clutch play.

"Clutch" is 2 minutes left with margin of 3 in playoffs,

I will be only talking about Lebron and Kobe, considering these two were heads and shoulders beyond everyone else for their efficiency and volume.

Playoffs:

Lebron

He is 40/106 in clutch situation
His free throw shooting is 49/67
True Shooting is, 49.8%
Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers

Kobe

He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
His free throw shooting is 67/79
His true shooting is 58 %
Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.

Lebron

He is 4/23 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 10/14
His true shooting is 31%
Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
TO per 36: 3.7 TO

Kobe

He is 10/20 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 4/5
His true shooting is 56.4%
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.

Lebron

17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
32% EFG
43% TS.
Assists per 36: 4.26
TO per 36: 3.1

Kobe

28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
46% EFG
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:51 AM   #10
Gotterdammerung
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Default Re: Shaq vs Yao Ming, first meeting

I remember that game. Was more impressed with Yao than Shaq even though he did dominate the game. Yao was a rookie facing peak Shaq, but made him work.

I recall what Yao said after the game: the real Shaq showed up in overtime, when he wasn't tossing up "chippies" or weak stuff cuz he was using classic Shaq moves like the tornado
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