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Old 04-25-2008, 10:50 PM   #31
Dengness9
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Default Re: Realistic Trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ring#7
The problem I'm having with your trade is that it is still a little lopsided in our favor. Hinrich, Deng, and a 9th pick is a good package. But Marian is a proven allstar. Deng hasnt proven anything yet, and he could only hope to be as good as Marian someday. Hinrich aint really that much of an upgrade over Jason Williams, so I don't see any real incentative for them to give up the number one pick in the draft for our number 9. Lets suppose they agreed to your offer, and then the following year Marian walks. What have we really gained. Rose and a bad contract! I could be wrong and I'm not trying to down your trade. I was just trying to get a better understanding for it. And after looking threw what I just wrote, its not a bad idea. However I dont see the Heat dealing with us. Riley is all about star power, and we have none.


Ring whoa whoa whoa.... Hinrich is a great upgrade to Jason Williams. Hinrich had a big time down year and still outdid J-Will in all important categories.

Kirk 07-08 - 11.5 ppg 6.0 apg, 3.3 rpg

JWill 07-08 8.8 ppg 4.6 apg, 1.9 rpg

Kirk is only 26 J Will is 33.
Jason Williams best statistical season came in 2001-02 his first season w/ the Grizzlies who were horrible. He averaged 14.8 ppg, 8.0 apg, and 3 rpg. Hinrich two years ago in just his 4th season, averaged 16.7ppg, 6.3 apg, and 3.4 rpg. Hinrich is age wise just entering his prime, whereas J-Will is heading extremely close to retirement.

Next thing Ring your not seeing. The heat would trade Marion because he is almost certainly not in their long term plans. If they want him to stick around Marion is looking for 18 to 20 million a year. Assuming the Heat will not re-sign him to have money for the HUGE SUMMER OF 2010, there is no reason to have him this next upcoming season because the heat are obviously not contending for a title or even a division title for that matter. Getting a player like Deng for much cheaper who is also much younger to play next to Dwade and the young core of the Heat makes a lot sense. They lack a strong wing player outside of Dwade and Deng would compliment Wade(SG) at SF very well.

This whole trade could work because it helps both teams get further along to where they are trying to go. The Heat could have a refreshed Kirk Hinrich playing PG, who is now a veteran but still young in age. Then you got Deng who is 23 playing the 3 spot, who can also be signed for a lot less than a max contract. The heat would also get the 9th pick which could be used for a solid PF or C, for example, a Kevin Love, or Darrell Arthur, or even a legit 7ft'er DeAndre Jordan, who is a project top 10-15 pick outta Texas A&M who would only be a sophmore next year.
Heat Projected Lineup
PG Kirk Hinrich
SG Dwayne Wade
SF Luol Deng
PF Udonis Haslem
C No. 9 pick/?????

Thats a really good starting 5 to build a franchise around!!!!

Bulls Project Lineup
PG Derrick Rose
SG Thabo Sefolosha/Ben Gordon/Larry Hughes
SF Nocioni
PF Tyrus Thomas
C Joakim Noah

Another starting 5 that would need still 2-3 years to start reaching potential but is well balanced and could really pay off if the right time is given for those 5 starters to gel.
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:08 PM   #32
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Default Re: Realistic Trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengness9
Ring whoa whoa whoa.... Hinrich is a great upgrade to Jason Williams. Hinrich had a big time down year and still outdid J-Will in all important categories.

Kirk 07-08 - 11.5 ppg 6.0 apg, 3.3 rpg

JWill 07-08 8.8 ppg 4.6 apg, 1.9 rpg

Kirk is only 26 J Will is 33.
Jason Williams best statistical season came in 2001-02 his first season w/ the Grizzlies who were horrible. He averaged 14.8 ppg, 8.0 apg, and 3 rpg. Hinrich two years ago in just his 4th season, averaged 16.7ppg, 6.3 apg, and 3.4 rpg. Hinrich is age wise just entering his prime, whereas J-Will is heading extremely close to retirement.

Next thing Ring your not seeing. The heat would trade Marion because he is almost certainly not in their long term plans. If they want him to stick around Marion is looking for 18 to 20 million a year. Assuming the Heat will not re-sign him to have money for the HUGE SUMMER OF 2010, there is no reason to have him this next upcoming season because the heat are obviously not contending for a title or even a division title for that matter. Getting a player like Deng for much cheaper who is also much younger to play next to Dwade and the young core of the Heat makes a lot sense. They lack a strong wing player outside of Dwade and Deng would compliment Wade(SG) at SF very well.

This whole trade could work because it helps both teams get further along to where they are trying to go. The Heat could have a refreshed Kirk Hinrich playing PG, who is now a veteran but still young in age. Then you got Deng who is 23 playing the 3 spot, who can also be signed for a lot less than a max contract. The heat would also get the 9th pick which could be used for a solid PF or C, for example, a Kevin Love, or Darrell Arthur, or even a legit 7ft'er DeAndre Jordan, who is a project top 10-15 pick outta Texas A&M who would only be a sophmore next year.
Heat Projected Lineup
PG Kirk Hinrich
SG Dwayne Wade
SF Luol Deng
PF Udonis Haslem
C No. 9 pick/?????

Thats a really good starting 5 to build a franchise around!!!!

Bulls Project Lineup
PG Derrick Rose
SG Thabo Sefolosha/Ben Gordon/Larry Hughes
SF Nocioni
PF Tyrus Thomas
C Joakim Noah

Another starting 5 that would need still 2-3 years to start reaching potential but is well balanced and could really pay off if the right time is given for those 5 starters to gel.




You made your point. I keep forgetting how old Jason Williams is. I still remember when he was a bad a$$ for the Grizzlies. Man time flies.
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:33 AM   #33
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Post Re: Realistic Trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ring#7
Put yourself in Larry Hughes position for a sec. Your traded away from the Cavs because you arent the sidekick for Lebron the fans wanted you to be. Your getting paid a grip but cant play due to injury's, and people hate you for that as well. Anyhow your traded to the struggling Bulls for BenWallace, and now suddenly people are calling you the star player of the team. You feel an obligation to play hard for the fans, but the team your on sucks. Since knowone can score a basket you take it upon yourself to try and do it all. The problem is your not that great of an offensive player so your field goal % suffers. Even though your doing everything else right you carry a rep of being inconsistent. Now tell me, do you really think he's that bad of a player.

This year was his 10th year in the NBA. He has shot over 43% in a season just once, and has played in more than 73 games in a season once, his second year in the league. His calling card was always his defense, and because of his past injuries he can no longer do that at a high level. You said it yourself that he tried to do too much. Any veteran should know what his limitations are as a player, and should try to do as much good as possible. This does not include throwing up shots because you think everyone else on the team sucks.

Don't get me wrong, he does a whole lot more good for the team than Ben Wallace did, but his attitude needs an improvement, as does his decision making. He has said that the only thing he cares about is piling up his own stats. When he was in Cleveland, they wanted him to play PG, but he didn't want to because it meant he would take fewer shots and have to defer to Lebron. So yes, I do think he is a bad player, but only compared to what he is getting paid and what he could be doing if he modified his game to match what his skills are.
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:54 AM   #34
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Post Re: Realistic Trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengness9
Kirk is only 26 J Will is 33.
Jason Williams best statistical season came in 2001-02 his first season w/ the Grizzlies who were horrible. He averaged 14.8 ppg, 8.0 apg, and 3 rpg. Hinrich two years ago in just his 4th season, averaged 16.7ppg, 6.3 apg, and 3.4 rpg. Hinrich is age wise just entering his prime, whereas J-Will is heading extremely close to retirement.

Next thing Ring your not seeing. The heat would trade Marion because he is almost certainly not in their long term plans. If they want him to stick around Marion is looking for 18 to 20 million a year. Assuming the Heat will not re-sign him to have money for the HUGE SUMMER OF 2010, there is no reason to have him this next upcoming season because the heat are obviously not contending for a title or even a division title for that matter. Getting a player like Deng for much cheaper who is also much younger to play next to Dwade and the young core of the Heat makes a lot sense. They lack a strong wing player outside of Dwade and Deng would compliment Wade(SG) at SF very well.

This whole trade could work because it helps both teams get further along to where they are trying to go. The Heat could have a refreshed Kirk Hinrich playing PG, who is now a veteran but still young in age. Then you got Deng who is 23 playing the 3 spot, who can also be signed for a lot less than a max contract. The heat would also get the 9th pick which could be used for a solid PF or C, for example, a Kevin Love, or Darrell Arthur, or even a legit 7ft'er DeAndre Jordan, who is a project top 10-15 pick outta Texas A&M who would only be a sophmore next year.
Heat Projected Lineup
PG Kirk Hinrich
SG Dwayne Wade
SF Luol Deng
PF Udonis Haslem
C No. 9 pick/?????

Thats a really good starting 5 to build a franchise around!!!!

The only problem is with this is that Marion is an All-Star and one of the top 10-15 players in the league. Kirk is coming off a bad season, as you said, and so is Deng. There is no way they would trade Marion AND a #1 or #2 overall pick for just Kirk, Deng, and the #9 pick. That makes no sense at all. If anything, they would trade just Marion for those two and a pick. That would be more even. Also, Marion is only 30 years old on May 7th, so it's not like he is getting old or anything. Rose is a much better point guard now than Kirk will ever be, and if we have seen anything recently in the NBA, it is that point guards make the difference on a team. Tony Parker and Chris Paul are perfect examples of that.

I disagree that the Heat are in rebuilding mode. The lineup they threw out there for the last month or so was ridiculous and pathetic, but they did have a whole bunch of injuries. This means that Wade, Marion, and Haslem will be fresh next year when the season starts, and if you add a little youth to that along with Rose, your core is better than most teams in the league.

The Heat already have their superstar in Wade, their shutdown defender in Marion, and a solid 4 in Haslem. If you bring in Rose to be the glue guy that does everything well, you have yourself a great young team that might even be able to forgo a couple of those painful rebuilding years. And in Rose, you have a reason for Marion and Wade to stay when they become FA's. If they have good success, they might even get them for cheaper than the market price because they want to win. That's when you draw the good role players (like Boston did this offseason after getting KG and Ray Allen), and boom, you have a championship caliber team just like that.

The Heat are in the perfect position, and Riley can see that. There is no sense in messing that up now.
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