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Old 09-01-2009, 01:46 AM   #61
WoGiTaLiA1
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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dogs are not wild f*ckin game dude...jesus christ...

humans created dogs for many reasons, killing them was never a reason...

Because we domesticated them does not make them any different and one of the first reasons that we "domesticated" them for was entertainment, notably, bloodsport. Check the greeks and romans out on that front.

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Are you really comparing hunting to torturing and killing dogs? Lets see. Hunting: Shooting a wild, overpopulated, dear in the head killing it instantaneously then using the carcass to feed yourself and your family, making something out of the skin or mounting it.

You see, you could apply the same theory on dogs, they are overpopulated, would it be the same if someone was to shoot them and eat them(which you can) or make things out of their skin? Fact is that like those game were allowed to breed for hunting purposes, Vick bred those dogs for fighting, think of it what you may(personally I think it is disgusting) but that was why they were on this Earth. It is illegal, I have no problem with that, but it is no more vile or disgusting than hunting, which is legal, it is the hypocrisy that I am really directing what I say at more than anything, how is one wild beast any better than another and how is one person who kills one any better than another, Vick actually does the humane thing in putting down wounded dogs(his method is questionable) as you would fire a second bullet if the first doesnt kill with a game which most hunters will require.

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What Vick did: taking tame animals, teaching them to kill other tame animals for a profit and entertainment. It's not like the dogs are killing each other quickly and with little pain.

See the previous part, they weren't tame, they are bred for fighting, just as we allow the deer to breed in large numbers for hunting. Most hunters aren't good enough to kill the game with little pain, it takes a very good shot to take down animals with one shot and cause pretty much instant death, electrocution is actually a more effective method.

Don't get me wrong, I in no way support dog fighting, I am an animal lover, but the way people reacted to Vick compared to other athletes/people doing the same thing under a different banner is disgusting, the way they reacted compared to the reaction when people like JR Smith, Leonard Little or Dante Stallworth kill a person is disgusting. It was dogs bred to fight, like a chicken bred to eat or a deer bred to hunt or fish farmed to fish. To me it is the distinction we draw on dogs over other animals that is the issue.

Nothing against his punishment for committing a crime just that to hate on Vick for what he did whilst others do similar things and are not hated on seems hypocritical to me.
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:56 AM   #62
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

somehow this turned into a debate on why fighting pit bulls is no worse than hunting wild game...



it is not the same, not even close...and yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with why we created them...

you know why we don't ride on the backs of domestic dogs like we do a horse or camel?...it is the same reason we don't hunt and kill domestic dogs...they were not created by us for that reason...

Vick did breed those to fight, but pitts were not created to fight each other...that was never the intent...and never should be...
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:58 AM   #63
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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Originally Posted by ~primetime~
somehow this turned into a debate on why fighting pit bulls is no worse than hunting wild game...



it is not the same, not even close...and yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with why we created them...

you know why we don't ride on the backs of domestic dogs like we do a horse or camel?...it is the same reason we don't hunt and kill domestic dogs...they were not created by us for that reason...

Vick did breed those to fight, but pitts were not created to fight each other...that was never the intent...and never should be...
pitt bulls arent really house pets though. they were bred to fight and kill.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:02 AM   #64
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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it is not the same, not even close...and yes, it has EVERYTHING to do with why we created them...

you know why we don't ride on the backs of domestic dogs like we do a horse or camel?...it is the same reason we don't hunt and kill domestic dogs...they were not created by us for that reason...

Vick did breed those to fight, but pitts were not created to fight each other...that was never the intent...and never should be...

Pitbulls maybe, I have no idea on their history, but the three earliest reasons we domesticated dogs were for hunting, eating and entertainment. Dogs fighting both humans and other dogs/animals was one of the earliest forms of entertainment, way before football was ever thought of.

So in fact it was the intent and that is what gets me, over the last 60 or so years dogs have been put on this pedestal where they are higher than humans or any other animal(except maybe dolphins). Dont get me wrong, Vick committed a crime, but that as much ties back to the pedestal thing as anything else.

And breeding a dog to fight is no different to breeding deer to hunt, it is for entertainment and I find it hard to believe that the type of animal should really matter in this regard.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:07 AM   #65
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
Pitbulls maybe, I have no idea on their history, but the three earliest reasons we domesticated dogs were for hunting, eating and entertainment. Dogs fighting both humans and other dogs/animals was one of the earliest forms of entertainment, way before football was ever thought of.

So in fact it was the intent and that is what gets me, over the last 60 or so years dogs have been put on this pedestal where they are higher than humans or any other animal(except maybe dolphins). Dont get me wrong, Vick committed a crime, but that as much ties back to the pedestal thing as anything else.

And breeding a dog to fight is no different to breeding deer to hunt, it is for entertainment and I find it hard to believe that the type of animal should really matter in this regard.
do people really breed deer???

they are wild game...

the type of animal does matter...how can it not?

we farm beef to eat, we breed toy poodles for girls to love...are both of them OK to eat regardless of why they were created???

NO, poodles should never be eaten, because they were not created for that reason...and dogs should never fight each other to the death for the same reason...

and I highly doubt there is a breed around today that was breed solely to fight...can you show me that breed please???
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:20 AM   #66
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do people really breed deer???

they are wild game...

They are allowed to breed for the purpose of hunting, it is a major reason why there are kill limits and certain areas where you hunt. They aren't bred in the same way as cats, but they are allowed to reproduce at large numbers and are not culled to control numbers. It is essentially the same thing as breeding an animal.

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we farm beef to eat, we breed toy poodles for girls to love...are both of them OK to eat regardless of why they were created???

Some people in the world would eat the toy poodle and love the cow, doesn't make either way right. Plus, find me a toy poodle that was bred to fight or used in a fight and I will have eternal respect, the idea is probably the coolest thing I have visualised today, as someone who's family has bred toy poodles.


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NO, poodles should never be eaten, because they were not created for that reason...and dogs should never fight each other to the death for the same reason...

See previous points, in other parts of the world that is exactly why they would be bred, though I can't imagine their meet would be particularly nice, still...

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and I highly doubt there is a breed around today that was breed solely to fight...can you show me that breed please???

Pitbulls, Boxers and Rottweilers are all bred for purposes of fighting and killing today, don't know the original intentions of the breeds, they are bred both for fighting each other(illegally in the USA) and with the intent to be guard dogs that will attack intruders. These are dogs that are bred to be violent and you want to be damn careful with any of those breeds if you plan on having them as pets. It is highly recommended that you only buy pure breed with family histories of those 3 breeds(amongst others).

Again, I'm an animal lover but I am also a realist and to be honest, if people want to breed animals for entertainment, I'm cool with it, I won't watch it or bet on it, but it is their choice(legality aside) and I think they should have that choice and to me the animal doesn't matter. I love my pet dog and pet cat and that is the reason I have them, my family also has horses to ride, cows, chicken and sheep to eat and I have no problem with that. They are animals and if it is fit for one kind, it is fit for another, perks of being the dominant species and all that.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:22 AM   #67
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
You see, you could apply the same theory on dogs, they are overpopulated, would it be the same if someone was to shoot them and eat them(which you can) or make things out of their skin? Fact is that like those game were allowed to breed for hunting purposes, Vick bred those dogs for fighting, think of it what you may(personally I think it is disgusting) but that was why they were on this Earth. It is illegal, I have no problem with that, but it is no more vile or disgusting than hunting, which is legal, it is the hypocrisy that I am really directing what I say at more than anything, how is one wild beast any better than another and how is one person who kills one any better than another, Vick actually does the humane thing in putting down wounded dogs(his method is questionable) as you would fire a second bullet if the first doesnt kill with a game which most hunters will require.

I'm okay with killing dogs for food or clothing ect. I don't hold dogs to any different standards than other animals. Vick didn't do that though. He didn't hunt them. He bread them to kill other dogs. Then cruelly killed them because he had no use for them anymore. Have you seen pictures of dogs after dogfights? Here is a link. It's graphic be warned. http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wiThey are horribly deformed missing tons of skin, ears, ect. nothing in hunting comes close to that. I honestly cannot believe you said he did the humane thing in putting down the wounded dogs. Taking your old, sick, dying dog out back and shooting him in the back of the head is humane, or taking him to the vet to be euthanized is humane. Drowning/electrocuting dogs that weren't good enough to kill other dogs isn't humane in any sense of the word.

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Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
See the previous part, they weren't tame, they are bred for fighting, just as we allow the deer to breed in large numbers for hunting. Most hunters aren't good enough to kill the game with little pain, it takes a very good shot to take down animals with one shot and cause pretty much instant death, electrocution is actually a more effective method.

Don't get me wrong, I in no way support dog fighting, I am an animal lover, but the way people reacted to Vick compared to other athletes/people doing the same thing under a different banner is disgusting, the way they reacted compared to the reaction when people like JR Smith, Leonard Little or Dante Stallworth kill a person is disgusting. It was dogs bred to fight, like a chicken bred to eat or a deer bred to hunt or fish farmed to fish. To me it is the distinction we draw on dogs over other animals that is the issue.

Nothing against his punishment for committing a crime just that to hate on Vick for what he did whilst others do similar things and are not hated on seems hypocritical to me.

Pit Bulls are tamed animals. They were taught to kill. Humans don't allow deer to breed in large numbers, there just aren't enough predators to kill the deer. I'm not educated on hunting so I don't know what percentage of deer are killed in the first shot, but I'd assume it's pretty high considering how powerful guns are... either way I'd take being shot twice over being drowned or electrocuted...

Drinking and driving is stupid. I've never done it and never will, but their is a difference between making a mistake and accidentally taking a life and consciously making a decision to breed animals to fight and mutilate each other then purposely kill them in the manner he did. Neither is right, and Stallworth should have gotten more than 30 days, but I'm more inclined to forgive a drunken mistake then years of abusing animals for profit.

It's been nice debating; but I feel as if I've derailed this thread pretty badly so I'm not gonna respond any more on the topic of hunting vs dogfighting.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:22 AM   #68
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

People die everyday and I don't see any of you guys caring but when a few dogs get killed, it's all of a sudden WW3. Someone said this on another forum and I'll quote him : "White people care more about dogs than they do about humans".

Judging by this thread, it's obvious. For example, Dante killed someone and didn't even get a year or a month. Vick kills dogs that do nothing for society and he gets 23 month sentence? F*cking morons.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:38 AM   #69
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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I honestly cannot believe you said he did the humane thing in putting down the wounded dogs. Taking your old, sick, dying dog out back and shooting him in the back of the head is humane, or taking him to the vet to be euthanized is humane. Drowning/electrocuting dogs that weren't good enough to kill other dogs isn't humane in any sense of the word.

Sure there are more effective ways, drowning is particularly bad, but electrocution is just as effective as a bullet. I'm not complete on what Vick actually did as far as killing just know that is the gist of it. Those animals were bred to fight though, I don't support it personally, but to argue that it is any different to killing any other animal is hypocritical to me. He killed the ones that weren't good enough, no different to killing cows that aren't healthy.

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I'm not educated on hunting so I don't know what percentage of deer are killed in the first shot, but I'd assume it's pretty high considering how powerful guns are...

It wouldn't be that high, it takes a very good shot to take a deer down instantly with one shot. Sure a single bullet will often kill eventually, but it is the same as leaving a dog to die after a fight, the animal is in serious pain.

Bulls/Cows are the same, there is a specific spot in their head you have to hit to kill them pretty much instantly, if you miss it all you do is fracture their skull and cause them immense pain but on top of that, as they are in so much pain it makes nailing that spot on the 2nd attempt even harder, it's nice when you land the first shot clean but those cows look like they are in a frying pan if you dont.

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It's been nice debating; but I feel as if I've derailed this thread pretty badly so I'm not gonna respond any more on the topic of hunting vs dogfighting.

Fair enough, it's been fun, I can see where you come from in a ways, I share several of your views, I personally am not a fan of dog fighting but I also don't see a difference between it and any other form of animal killing regardless of the reasoning. We breed the animal to kill, whether it is for entertainment, food or other reasons and I see no line between a dog fight and a hunt, other than that in a dog fight at least one of the dogs has a chance of survival.

I can see if people didn't want to buy Vick's jersey because he was a criminal but because he killed animals is just ridiculous, as I said, Favre and Jared Allen both kill animals for entertainment also, it is the animal that differs.
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Old 09-01-2009, 02:54 AM   #70
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

people that eat cats and dogs do so because of poverty in most cases, they can't afford to farm beef, so they grab a bunch of dirty alley cats and eat them...

it is something that should NOT be done, due to the fact that those animals are neither wild game, nor farm animals...
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:01 AM   #71
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Favre... someone couldnt pay me to wear a Vick jersey.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:58 AM   #72
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it is something that should NOT be done, due to the fact that those animals are neither wild game, nor farm animals...

Define wild game, how is an animal that is walking the streets different to an animal that is walking a forest. We would eat a chicken, why not dogs and cats? See we are at it again, dogs are somehow better than other animals, why? I am not saying eat your dog that you have as a pet, but what is wrong with someone else eating a dog if they have it for food, I think people just get "confused" by their pets that they have and try and relate that dog with a feral dog on a street, wild dog in a forest or a dog bred and trained for fighting. They are different dogs, bred for different reasons, you cant take your pet labrador and try and imagine it is a dog walking a street that will get eaten, yet people do it. Also, try going to India and telling them that the Cows that walk the streets should be eaten and the dogs should not, because it would be a pretty quick way to catch a beating or get thrown in jail even. Animals are on earth for different reasons, dogs can and do have many reasons, stop thinking of your pet and thus putting dogs on some higher ground, thats all I'm getting at, they aren't special as a whole, the vast majority of dogs are mangy mutts that are good for nothing but spreading disease, that is just the reality of it.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:00 AM   #73
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Default Re: Which NFL jersey would you rather buy?

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Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1

So basically you have a guy who trained animals to kill and then killed them versus an egomaniac who just kills them.


dude, thats the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. i have never hunted, but the point of hunting isn't to torture animals. if vick had shot the dogs in the back of the head a la Shiloh, then people would not have been as upset- i know i would have a different opinion of him if thats how he did it. but he friggin held their heads underwater and electructed them so they felt pain before they die. HUGE difference. vick is a sick f*ck
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