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Old 12-27-2013, 05:24 PM   #76
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
I never said Jordan had a ton of career lows. But its almost sacrilegious to say anything that isn't praising either guy. I don't really see how Hakeem deserves that distinction.
It's true, you can say what you want, but of Jordan's full 13 seasons, he couldn't get his team to a .500 record in FOUR of them.

For comparison sake, a guy like Duncan has played 16 full seasons without having ONE SEASON less than 0.600...and counting.

I'm not saying it was all Jordan's fault, I'm just saying that here's a guy that didn't exactly have the most consistent career, especially in terms of longevity with the 2 retirements.

And when you think of Duncan, you can look at the fact that he's potentially a Ginobili mistake away from 3 more (Fisher's 0.4 shot over him, bad foul on Dirk, worst game of his career in Finals Game 6). That's not to say that Ginobili hasn't helped him win others, just that Duncan has been close to several more...and still has time to win more.

Last edited by ninephive : 12-27-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:27 PM   #77
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by Odinn
If you remember, we had a discussion once about 1992-93 season being the best of Hakeem's. After that I watched of him games in that season. And from what I've seen;

It was the 2nd season of Hakeem under Rudy T's coaching and I find Hakeem was like LeBron at center. He was truly ball dominant for a center and his apg numbers went up because of this. It was the season Hakeem's offensive role got bigger.

He was a combo of pre-RudyT Hakeem and chips-winning Hakeem. He was more concentrated on his rebounding and defense compared to his title seasons with lesser scoring and being ball-dominant.

In 1993-94 season he excelled his offensive role. If you can watch enough of 1992-93 and 1993-94 seasons, you will get the feeling. The numbers wouldn't tell this much of the story.


My overall ranking of Hakeem's seasons;
1. 1993-94 (and I do not have any doubts about it now)
2. 1992-93
3. 1993-95

Yes, I'd rank 1992-93 over 1994-95. Because as for scoring, 1994-95 was Hakeem's best. But just as for scoring. The other facets truly weren't the same.

Thanks for your response. I'm definitely looking to watch more tape of 92-93 Hakeem, I've seen his games in the playoffs but not much of him in the regular season. I'll try to download or trade for some.

How would you compare him defensively in the three seasons?
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by fpliii
Thanks for your response. I'm definitely looking to watch more tape of 92-93 Hakeem, I've seen his games in the playoffs but not much of him in the regular season. I'll try to download or trade for some.

How would you compare him defensively in the three seasons?
1994-95 is the worst, defensively.

In 1993-94 season, he was as good as 1992-93. But not that consistent, IMO. I mean, in 1992-93 season, he played like a goat level defender all season long. In 1993-94 season, it was like 80-85 percent compared to the previous one. But his offensive play and scoring much much more consistent in 1993-94. He shifted his focus from defense to offense a little bit, but his offense gained more than defense lost.

1. 1992-93 season
2. 1993-94 season (due to consistency)
3. 1994-95 season (straight up, he wasn't just as good or consistent)

Although I'd like to add, Hakeem gambled less to block or steal the ball in 1993-94 season and after that.

---

But what it really bothers me, although he was like guard in a 7-footer's body, Hakeem was truly ball-dominant in his peak. Other than Hakeem, all other all-time great big men didn't need to be ball-dominant to be that good. That's a minus for Hakeem in my opinion.

Last edited by Odinn : 12-27-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:54 PM   #79
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
1994-95 is the worst, defensively.

In 1993-94 season, he was as good as 1992-93. But not that consistent, IMO. I mean, in 1992-93 season, he played like a goat level defender all season long. In 1993-94 season, it was like 80-85 percent compared to the previous one. But his offensive play and scoring much much more consistent in 1993-94. He shifted his focus from defense to offense a little bit, but his offense gained more than defense lost.

1. 1992-93 season
2. 1993-94 season (due to consistency)
3. 1994-95 season (straight up, he wasn't just as good or consistent)

---

But what it really bothers me, although he was like guard in a 7-footer's body, Hakeem was truly ball-dominant in his peak. Other than Hakeem, all other all-time great big men didn't need to be ball-dominant to be that good. That's a minus for Hakeem in my opinion.

Valid point. I do think that's something to consider when evaluating some of his better seasons.

One thing I've always liked about Hakeem, which has a lot to do with his guard-like skills, is his ability to post up without an entry pass (he also was adept at leaving the post). Most bigs will need to set up and be fed in the post, but that wasn't the case with him. This holds for other all-time great bigs too obviously, but not at the same frequency (or with the same level of success).
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:04 PM   #80
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by fpliii
Valid point. I do think that's something to consider when evaluating some of his better seasons.

One thing I've always liked about Hakeem, which has a lot to do with his guard-like skills, is his ability to post up without an entry pass (he also was adept at leaving the post). Most bigs will need to set up and be fed in the post, but that wasn't the case with him. This holds for other all-time great bigs too obviously, but not at the same frequency (or with the same level of success).
Yeah. It's about your choice as how you'd like to see it. His guard-like skills were truly great. Hakeem was a freak.
KAJ was tall and strong. Shaq and Wilt were among the strongest ones. Russell was one of the most athletic centers ever. All of the goat centers were physically exceptional. That's why I do not like Hakeem being a ball-dominant center. Otherwise, why shouldn't I give the balll as many times as I could to a guard that is a 7-footer.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:22 PM   #81
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
He honestly has become to MOST overrated player in history.
Yes he had a great skill-set but my god the way some of you refer to this player is absurd. He lost 9 times in the 1st round...

Let that sink in for a moment.
He had some epic seasons no doubt, 94 & 95 he was a monster.
But then again a healthy Bill Walton was a monster too, arguably a top 5 peak of All-Time (to me anyways). But injuries ruined his chances of cementing a potentially top 10 resume.

Hakeem is a borderline top 10 player, but as far as his overall resume is concerned and his consistency (and more importantly, him being a winner). He perhaps has become the most overrated of them all!
I don't know where Hakeem ranks all-time but I know he's hyped a lot because his Youtube 'scoring skills' video. Hakeem had aesthetically pleasing guard-like skills which he NEEDED to be an effective offensive big-man because he was a 6-9 class center not a 7 footer - and basic basketball fundamentals dictate that you face up opponents larger than you and post up players smaller. Many of the centers guarding him were bigger so he needed a better developed face-up game than say, Kareem, Wilt, or Shaq. But Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq were BETTER offensive players than he was, they didn't face-up because they did what they were supposed to do when facing guys smaller than them, and that is play with your back to them. Might not look as pretty, but those guys were better offensive players, period.

Not to mention Hakeem was slow to even develop those moves - watching 1980's games of him and college games, he was not nearly as polished offensively as his YT highlights showcase. He was always good defensively, but early on Sampson was getting more praise than him. He was raw and took a good deal of time to really learn the in's and out's of the NBA-level game which is unlike the other greats, even Bill Russell commented on this in some early 90's games where he did some mic work, mentioning how Hakeem had only just learned how to start passing to create plays rather than just to get rid of the ball. Where as Wilt, Shaq, Russell and Kareem were literally dominant players who understood the game at a high level in the NBA virtually from day 1.

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 12-27-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:46 PM   #82
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
I mean as an overall leader & player.
He was top 5 in MVP voting from 92' to 96'.

Hakeem has always been great, but you give those other legends 9 chances to win a 1st round series and I don't think they'd fail.

Kobe almost achieved that in 2 tries, against a far superior team with far less talent then Hakeem had. Heck, Kobe dropped 50 in game 6 and if his bum ass teammates would attempt to defend & rebound, chances are Tim Thomas never gets off that 3.

So are all 9 first round exits W/O HCA all his fault?
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:49 PM   #83
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
1994-95 is the worst, defensively.

In 1993-94 season, he was as good as 1992-93. But not that consistent, IMO. I mean, in 1992-93 season, he played like a goat level defender all season long. In 1993-94 season, it was like 80-85 percent compared to the previous one. But his offensive play and scoring much much more consistent in 1993-94. He shifted his focus from defense to offense a little bit, but his offense gained more than defense lost.

1. 1992-93 season
2. 1993-94 season (due to consistency)
3. 1994-95 season (straight up, he wasn't just as good or consistent)

Although I'd like to add, Hakeem gambled less to block or steal the ball in 1993-94 season and after that.

---

But what it really bothers me, although he was like guard in a 7-footer's body, Hakeem was truly ball-dominant in his peak. Other than Hakeem, all other all-time great big men didn't need to be ball-dominant to be that good. That's a minus for Hakeem in my opinion.

His ball dominance led them to two titles. How can this be a negative, especially when his best playmaker was a young Sam Cassell?
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:50 PM   #84
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
How many of those 9 first round losses were with HCA though?


Do you defend Carmelo Anthony with that reasoning when it's brought up that he lost in the first round a bunch of times?

Also the 1980's, and 1990's WC was much much weaker, than the 2000's WC that Carmelo played in.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:54 PM   #85
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Default Re: Some 93 Hakeem Hypotheticals

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Do you defend Carmelo Anthony with that reasoning when it's brought up that he lost in the first round a bunch of times?

Also the 1980's, and 1990's WC was much much weaker, than the 2000's WC that Carmelo played in.

Yes I do. Hakeem was a two way player unlike Carmelo, which doesn't help his case.
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