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Old 04-05-2007, 12:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

eliteballer in his entire life has never made a post that couldn't be followed with the phrase, "therefore Kobe Bryant is better."

Quote:
Worse than T-Mac? At least Arenas goes to the line a lot which should put him above T-Mac efficiency wise.
no. you don't know anything. the greatness of a player is determined on exactly one thing: his FG% unadjusted.
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
eliteballer in his entire life has never made a post that couldn't be followed with the phrase, "therefore Kobe Bryant is better."

[zoolander] OH SNAP [/zoolander]
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

I like how this is posted on the night Kobe has pretty much the definitive inefficient game. 34 shots, 29 points. like a patented eliteballer "first strike." like only he can, just lays out the info and leaves hoping it will sink in and people will have no idea they're being brainwashed. but really all that happens is the first 5 posts are like "yeah so?" and/or "stfu eliteballer you agenda-pushing goon."
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Gilbert is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA fact. The way he plays shows it and even the stats. Now Gilbert scores 29 pts a game , im not sure how many players could score that and be as efficient as him because its pretty hard to put 29 up on a nightly basis
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

I could see through Arenas' great couple of months like wax paper. He's a top 12 maybe 13 player at best, which is great. But people with the MVP talks or whatever. Truth is, he's a true chucker and a ball hog.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

anyone who thinks arenas is a ball hog is going off either a second hand account or nothing at all. period.
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
anyone who thinks arenas is a ball hog is going off either a second hand account or nothing at all. period.

Okay maybe not so much ball hog. But he's without question a chucker, and my ball hog remark is wrong. However he is the pg, and he only gets 6 assists because of how much the ball is in his hands. He's not exactly a remarkeable passer or creator for others. People want to give him credit for those assists, but it would be sad if he didn't get them.

The defense for the over 6 assists for top scorers only goes for guys that aren't exactly pgs like Kobe or Tmac or Bron. But really the reason guys like this get so many assists is for the amount of time the balls in their hands.
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

I never liked the adjusted field goal percentage thing. Or true shooting. Anything like that. You shoot what you shoot. If someone is dumb enough to think it alone decides how good you are thats on them.

The next time the most effective player(or even guard) in the league takes that many threes a game will be the first. Scoring the same points per shot on average by shooting 35 from 3 doesnt mean youre as effective as a guy who shoots 52-53 without 3s.

For reasons mostly unrelated to shooting percentage basketball players just tend to be less effective the farther from the basket they play. There is a reason people call an outside jumper "settling" in the case of great scorers like Arenas. Its a shot you can get at basically any time and its not a shot likely to go in. Its a shot that often comes at the expense of running any real team involving offense which creates bigger issues than shooting percentage. Just because you can miss 65 percent of them and still score a lot doesnt make it a smart thing to do.

If they start making shots from behind halfcourt 4 points shooting 25% on them doesnt mean youre efficient. Is points scored per shot really important when 75% of your shots result in giving the other team the ball? The points(be it per game or per shot) cant be the only issue when you determine how effective a guy is. What it does to the team has to be thrown in. Plus often guys who take crazy 3s only shoot the percentages they do because horrible games balance out the great ones. Instead of being more consistient by playing a smarter game they are either spectacular or destroy their team.

Arenas in February shot 9 threes a game on 17.9%. He shot 18 percent...and still took 9 a game. Probably why he shot 34.7 overall that month. That is the kind of stretch im not sure a guy who isnt in love with the 3 could go through. Even the gold standard of poor shooting(in the past at least...hes shot 45% the last 2 years) Allen Iverson...in his worst shooting year....

His worst month was 38.3 unless you want to be difficult and count a 2-3 game month.

You probably have to go back to a guy like Michael Adams on the "One pass and shoot" 130 a game giving up Nuggets to find a guy who scored 26+ and had a 35% shooting month where he played all the games. And even he would suprise me.

Arenas due partly to shot selection is capable of being as cold as a superstar can be. If you dont take terrible shots the chances of going into stretches where you just shoot like ass are less. The impact of taking a gang of threes goes far beyond how many made 2s you need to get the same points.

You can win taking a lot of threes(As I hope the Bulls continue to prove) but it makes it haaaard to go through any kind of slump and survive.

There is a reason they give you the extra point for making it......its a bad shot.
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Old 04-05-2007, 04:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

I never heard of the TS argument until I came online and I still don't understand it. I mean a guys shooting percentage is what it is and it's usually indicative of the quality of his shot selection. I want my guy to take it to the whole and get the best shot possible rather than settling and bailing out the defense. Every missed three can result in a long reboud and lead to a golden oppertunity in transition for the opposition. I have no problem with players taking open, uncontested threes buy if that's not the case then why settle for a shot that has a 35% chance of going in ( in Arenas' case) when you have the ability to get better shot with potential of getting to the line. I don't think a player's fg% should be dismissed or rather adjusted because he takes more "difficult" shots instead I think a guys fg % says a lot about his shot selection.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCL
making 35% of 8 attempts of 3's = 8.4 points

if he took 8 attempts of 2's, it would be equivalent of making 52.5% to get an EV of 8.4 points.

mathematically, it's not a bad statistic.

Making 33.33% on 3-point shots is as good as making 50% on 2-point shots. However, the FG% stat counts 3-point shots. If they make FG% *just* count 2-point shots, just about everyone's FG% would go up and you'd have a different benchmark. IMO, NBA should do away with a single FG% and have a 2-point FG% stat and a 3-point FG%. It would be much more accurate.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:32 AM   #26
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

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Originally Posted by TheHonestTruth
Arenas is definitely not as good as he think he is.
However, he is better than Kobe.

You have got to be kidding me.
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

And people bash AI about efficiency. :


GeeWiz was money about eliteballer. Too predicatable.
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Old 04-05-2007, 01:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Kblaze everything you said is right. and I hate the 3 and I hate Gilbert taking them. I've made a fking essay on why the 3 is horrible (long rebounds create fastbreaks, it's more important to control the middle of the floor, it closes opportunities to get teammates open, and it breaks rhythm). Gilbert having god-awful shot selection has always been pretty much a given.

but you can't point to a stat 42% FG and definitively state, "therefore he is inefficient."

Gilbert Arenas is EXTREMELY efficient. he is also stupid. he takes horrible shots. but he is efficient, in fact, is perhaps the most efficient player in basketball (HEAR ME OUT.)

when Gilbert Arenas catches the ball he DOES SOMETHING WITH IT. and I think that's important. so many superstars, and even worse, so many wannabe superstars when they get the ball they stand there, they get an isolation, the dribble the ball around for 15 seconds before launching a horrible shot. when Gilbert gets the ball, it's action time, he's either shooting, driving, or passing, no wasting time, no alienating his teammates from the feel of the leather.

last year Gilbert got 29/6 on a lower usage rate than Jamaal Tinsley. he is able to get INSANE statistics while at the same time allowing his teammates to flourish. you know how often a Wizards possession features nobody but Gilbert doing anything meaningful? just about never, pretty much only when we need a buzzer beater. and the Wizards often go minutes at a time without Gilbert even touching the ball- he's a diversion on the wing to give Caron/Antawn room to operate in the high post, or give Daniels a clearout or Thomas a post up.

other superstars cannot claim this. sure, it has its downsides: a lack of patience can be costly at times, which explains his high turnover rate and volume of 3 attempts. but Gil is able to get 29/6 every night and his teammates are still able to feel comfortable and involved in the offense 48 minutes a game. no lulls in the action, no complicated plays need to be drawn up to get Gilbert his stats.

I think that's gotta be a factor when you talk about "efficiency." anyone can take a peek at his NBA.com page but how about try watching him play? yes the shots go up early and often but I don't see teammates complaining because he's more than willing to share the ball with them and he still gets his.

Quote:
Okay maybe not so much ball hog. But he's without question a chucker,
no argument.

Quote:
However he is the pg, and he only gets 6 assists because of how much the ball is in his hands. He's not exactly a remarkeable passer or creator for others. People want to give him credit for those assists, but it would be sad if he didn't get them.
Gils in a system where Caron gets 4 apg. in other words pretty much every assist everyone gets is going to come from swinging or picking and popping. Gil has a "holy ****" pass once in awhile but they're rare for any Wizards player. is it because Arenas doesn't have the ability or because of the system? who really knows. let's call him an average PG and a great scorer and be done with it. and when you're great at something and average at something else you do what you're great at right? can't blame him. he's had double digit assists when called upon to do so.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:26 PM   #29
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Dirk Nowitzki is the onliest top 10 scorer who is shooting >50% from the field
Dirk Nowitzki is the onliest top 10 scorer who is shooting >40% from the beyond the arc
Dirk Nowitzki is (almost) the onliest top 10 scorer who is shooting >90% from the free throw line (beside Ray Allen)

That is efficient!
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Gilbert Arenas is the least efficient 20 point scorer in the NBA

Can't say I really agree with that Wiz.

One of my biggest pet peeves about Gilbert is that he slows down, and sometimes even stops, the swinging motion as the ball moves around the perimeter. There are a bunch of players who do that of course, but I watch the Wizards, and Gilbert does it plenty. He'll get the swingpass to the top of the key, and instead of doing something productive with it, like driving into the lane to his right if the ball just came from the right, or continuing the swing to the left, or just driving left and continuing where the ball was headed, he'll sometimes just stop, and start a slow dribble. Understandable if the shotclock is low and something needs to be put up, but I see this happening with upwards of 15 seconds left on the shot clock, and Gilbert stops everything, and look sover the defense, looking to isolate himself. And it's just not good for the team and the offense when he does this.
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