How can you be a top5 GOAT averaging 15ppg

[JZ600]

Yes i know 11 rings in 13 seasons, monster on defense

But an awful awful 15ppg
15ppg.
How are you almost consensus top 5 GOAT

Once again 15ppg

[Fallen Angel]

11 Rings
Defensive IQ ahead of his time
#2 in Career Total Rebounds

[sd3035]

There was only one other guy in the league that didn't have to sit on a phone book to drive, and he averaged 50 ppg for a season. Comical times those were indeed

[TheCorporation]

And he never had one season where his FG% was 47% or higher. I don't have him in the top 5 all-time. He had a great team, and while we can't "punish him" for this, he did play in a very weak era.

[Bankaii]

Never understood why people hold him to such high regards. If a current superstar won rings averaging less than 20 ppg they would get called carried. If Russell is in the Top 5 GOATs for his defense why is Pippen's 6/6 rings not held so highly?

[outbreak]

Never understood why people hold him to such high regards. If a current superstar won rings averaging less than 20 ppg they would get called carried. If Russell is in the Top 5 GOATs for his defense why is Pippen's 6/6 rings not held so highly?

because Pippen didn't have the defensive impact Bill had. If you haven't seen enough footage of him to know the impact he had then don't comment.

[JZ600]

Yes we all know his impact defensively

But, 15ppg.

[Ne 1]

Honestly assigning an arbitrary criteria that the top players must be an offensive threat is just naive. I guess this shows the prevailing stat hog mentality and double standards of today's fans. Magic averaged less than 20 PPG, is he worthy to be put in the top 10?

People put way too much stock on an individuals scoring stats to determine their greatness, especially when such scoring stats (and stats in general) don't tell a complete picture of the player's contributions.

[And1AllDay]

Bill wasn't much of a scorer, but his rebounding and defense were top notch. And we all know that defense/rebounding = wins Championships. Bill did play in an era that didn't have many teams and their version of the "playoffs" is nothing like what it's like in modern basketball, but we can't penalize him for that. He did what he could with what was presented to him. It's hard to argue against a guy with 11 freakin Championships, but the fact that he scored so little is interesting. I can't think of any other players in the top 30 that have scored 15 ppg aside from Bill Russell.

[Ne 1]

And he never had one season where his FG% was 47% or higher. I don't have him in the top 5 all-time. He had a great team, and while we can't "punish him" for this, he did play in a very weak era.

It's true that Russell had a poor FG% but you have to take into consideration the entire league back then had a poor FG%.

Why was this?

1. A high tempo offense. For example the average team in '65 (FGA's: 7987) shot about 1400 more shots than a team in '05 (FGA's: 6588)

2. There were less fouls calls. In '65 the average team had 2076 PF's per season. In '05, 1856 personal fouls were called. You have to keep in mind that 1400 more shots were attempted, yet only 200 less fouls called. The result? A lowering of the FG%.

In short, its tougher to score when the defender can hack you around without getting called for a foul.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets clear some things about Russell's lack of offensive skills.

Russell was an amazing rebounder averaging 22 rpg (16+ rpg when adjusted to today's pace and still higher than Rodman's average. He was a good ball handler for a big man, since he often runs the ball after rebounding to get a clear pass down court and start the fast break, and of course a great defender. He was also a great passer; he consistently ranked in the top 10 in assists and that is beyond what you would expect from a center. Not most guards could do that. His scoring was solid at 15ppg on 13 FGA's. Not exactly mind blowing numbers but then everyone on the 60's Celtics didn't have a mind blowing PPG.


Celtics had a structured offense where all 5 guys on the floor would have the opportunity to score. The leading scorer on the Celtics only averaged 22 points and there were 5-6 other guys scoring in double-digits. Bill or anyone else on the Celtics didn't need not to fully exert themselves on offense since the scoring was distributed. Russell had the same shooting percentage as the top two scorers (Jones and Havlicek) on the team. Understand that Red wanted Russell to stay focused more on his rebounding and outlet passing instead of his shooting.

Also back in college, when his coach wasn't pigeonholing him on a defensive and rebounding role, Bill was scoring 20ppg on 52 FG%.


Conclusion: The Reason for Russell's low PPG in the NBA was Russell was given very few opportunities to score (13 FGA)

Reason for Russell's low FG% in the NBA: The physical style of play of his era and the subsequent neglect of his offensive game to focus more on his defensive and rebounding role for the team.

[Midnite89]

Never understood why people hold him to such high regards. If a current superstar won rings averaging less than 20 ppg they would get called carried. If Russell is in the Top 5 GOATs for his defense why is Pippen's 6/6 rings not held so highly?

Bill Russell has 5 MVPs. How many MVPs does Pippen have? Bill Russell won MVP in a season where Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50/25. And these were players voting as well.

[Nuff Said]

What saves him for me is his 5 mvp's, totaling one more than the great Wilt Chamberlain. He obviously was good and renowned even with his 15 ppg. It's just too bad they didn't have finals mvp back then because I'm curious to know how many he would've actually won out of his 11 titles.

[SouBeachTalents]

What saves him for me is his 5 mvp's, totaling one more than the great Wilt Chamberlain. He obviously was good and renowned even with his 15 ppg. It's just too bad they didn't have finals mvp back then because I'm curious to know how many he would've actually won out of his 11 titles.

It's not just the Finals MVP's, it's the lack of DPOY's as well. Dude could have had a resume close to

11 rings, 5 MVP's, 7 Finals MVP's, 11 DPOY's

[Bankaii]

because Pippen didn't have the defensive impact Bill had. If you haven't seen enough footage of him to know the impact he had then don't comment.

There isn't enough footage for anyone to determine if he was consistently a GOAT defender, so your comment is invalid. To add on to that Wilt destroyed him and made more First All-NBA teams. Russell wasn't even the best center of his own era. And Pippen often guarded the opposing teams best player, I'd say that's pretty impactful. You still haven't explained how a player can average less than 20 ppg and still be held so highly?

[Bankaii]

Bill Russell has 5 MVPs. How many MVPs does Pippen have? Bill Russell won MVP in a season where Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50/25. And these were players voting as well.

Was Pippen supposed to win a MVP over the GOAT lol?