Top 10 PGs of All-Time

[Niquesports]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...estPointGuards

[COLOR=Teal]Yawn.[/COLOR]

Dang another list of "experts" that dont even give KJ 1 vote.

Hey GP I guess this list is wrong also these guys dont know what there talking about.
YOu BIG DUMMY

[GP_20]

Glove is owning these fools Nique and Showtime. Damn good points there dude.

Thanks Man

I only really care what 3rd parties think. Niquesports is just like pleezebelieve, he isn't going to understand a thing. Let him talk. Just like we let pleezebelieve talk. I've totally killed all his arguments yet he doesn't get it.

Niquesports, my reaction to you, and all the other posters reaction to you, and your reaction to yourself...is just like how pleezebelieve reacts.

Everyone tells him he is getting owned, he is the only one who thinks otherwise.

[GP_20]

IT amazes me how silly you can get and how off topic you try and go to try and safe face.
All selections are open to debate but I put more in stock in the opinions of players that played the game coaches that coached the game and media guys that are paid and have inside information as well as personal dialog with the games players,coaches,GM's and owners than some silly kid's opinion that believes real basketball started with Jordan.

How much A** kicking are you gonna take.
Big Dummy.

As far as DJ yes I believe he deserves to be in the HOF he has both performance and team success much more than KJ

Try again BIG DUMMY

Here let me dumb it down for you even more


Your only argument is "Tiny is a Top 50 player and a HOF, KJ is not, therefore Tiny > KJ"

I named you other deserving Top 50 players and HOFs that aren't there. I asked if you think the ones already in Top 50 and HOF are better than those. You had no answer.

Therefore, your Top 50/HOF argument is weak and invalid. And there is more to it than being Top 50 or in the HOF. Now do you get it? Man you are slow.

[Showtime]

Glove is owning these fools Nique and Showtime. Damn good points there dude.

lol I've countered his "winning" argument several times, yet he can't comprehend what I'm trying to point out. He uses team success as a reason why Tiny is overrated and KJ is better. What he can't comprehend is that factors OUTSIDE THEIR CONTROL factored into team success, so you can't judge the individual on factors they can't control.

Example: like Jordan's first few years with the Bulls, Tiny's teams weren't good enough to compete with the opposition. Why? In both cases, is it because Jordan and Tiny didn't play well enough? Is it because Jordan's play was so inadequate that it resulted in losing seasons and no playoffs? Is that his fault? No. Then why did they lose? Because they didn't have enough talent on their teams to be competitive. Those circumstances created a situation where, DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS OF JORDAN AND THROUGH NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, his team wasn't competitive. Same with Tiny, only that situation didn't improve. He dealt with personal family issues, injury, etc all while his team stayed poor and didn't acquire enough talent. Let me say that again: Circumstances outside his control lead to a situation where, despite his best efforts, his team wasn't good enough to compete. That's the flaw in using team success without context. You shouldn't judge the individual on things they cannot control. KJ is not superior to Tiny because the suns went on playoff runs and the Royals/Kings did not.

Ask yourself this question: did the bulls have a losing record because of some fault of Jordan's? Was there some inadequacy in him or insufficient play that resulted in the bulls not having a winning record and not getting to the playoffs his rookie season? If the answer is no, then there shouldn't be any double standard with Tiny.

[GP_20]

lol I've countered his "winning" argument several times, yet he can't comprehend what I'm trying to point out. He uses team success as a reason why Tiny is overrated and KJ is better. What he can't comprehend is that factors OUTSIDE THEIR CONTROL factored into team success, so you can't judge the individual on factors they can't control.

Example: like Jordan's first few years with the Bulls, Tiny's teams weren't good enough to compete with the opposition. Why? In both cases, is it because Jordan and Tiny didn't play well enough? Is it because Jordan's play was so inadequate that it resulted in losing seasons and no playoffs? Is that his fault? No. Then why did they lose? Because they didn't have enough talent on their teams to be competitive. Those circumstances created a situation where, DESPITE THE BEST EFFORTS OF JORDAN AND THROUGH NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, his team wasn't competitive. Same with Tiny, only that situation didn't improve. He dealt with personal family issues, injury, etc all while his team stayed poor and didn't acquire enough talent. Let me say that again: Circumstances outside his control lead to a situation where, despite his best efforts, his team wasn't good enough to compete. That's the flaw in using team success without context. You shouldn't judge the individual on things they cannot control. KJ is not superior to Tiny because the suns went on playoff runs and the Royals/Kings did not.

Jordan got it done. Kobe got it done. T-Mac got it done. Iverson got it done. etc. etc. etc. They all got it done without any All-Stars. They showed it's possible to lead a team without much talent to the playoffs if you are good enogh.


Tiny Archibald, the well deserved HOF (no degrading ANYONE's credentials), played with 1 All-Star or 2 borderline All-Stars in many years and didn't get it done. Only once in his prime did he have a non-losing season.


And I think posters see this now. Also, you are totally missing the 2nd big factor Team success impacts. One is of course, team success it self. The 2nd one I haven't talked about since earlier in the thread.

[bizil]

Jordan got it done. Kobe got it done. T-Mac got it done. Iverson got it done. etc. etc. etc. They all got it done without any All-Stars. They showed it's possible to lead a team without much talent to the playoffs if you are good enogh.


Tiny Archibald, the well deserved HOF (no degrading ANYONE's credentials), played with 1 All-Star or 2 borderline All-Stars in many years and didn't get it done. Only once in his prime did he have a non-losing season.


And I think posters see this now. Also, you are totally missing the 2nd big factor Team success impacts. One is of course, team success it self. The 2nd one I haven't talked about since earlier in the thread.

Well truth be told AI, T-Mac, MJ, and Kobe are better than Tiny. Plus Tiny was ballin in an era where his teams weren't as good as a lot of others. You still had the Knicks, Spurs, Bullets, Celtics, Lakers, Portland, and Philly that had WAY MORE STACKED TEAMS! Tiny might have had a couple of All-Star players. But his teams couldn't compare to some of those other teams. If you think Tiny isn't a 8-10 PG of all time that's your opinion. But if he aint in the top 10 then he's no worse than 11-13. If you are in that range then most likely you are arguably a top ten caliber all time PG anyway.

[Niquesports]

Here let me dumb it down for you even more


Your only argument is "Tiny is a Top 50 player and a HOF, KJ is not, therefore Tiny > KJ"

I named you other deserving Top 50 players and HOFs that aren't there. I asked if you think the ones already in Top 50 and HOF are better than those. You had no answer.

Therefore, your Top 50/HOF argument is weak and invalid. And there is more to it than being Top 50 or in the HOF. Now do you get it? Man you are slow.

Oh now I get it
Its just as important to be considered a All Time great as it is to get voted in to the HOF and named a TOp 50 your opinion means so much and is way more respected than others. Your so bright
DUMB AZZ
Your only argument was that TIny had bad team success in his prime
You consider part of his prime his rookie season but only count KJ's prime when he got to the SUns why not count his rookie season also you the when he was rinding the pine for the Cavs something Tiny never did. YOu name a few people that agree with your Dumb Azz and you think your on to something News Flash maybe ther just as Dumb as you ever think about that.
Lets look at it one more time

Number of times named First team All NBA Tiny 3 KJ never
Number of times lead the league in scoring TIny 1 KJ never
Number of times name MVP of ALL Star Game Tiny 1 KJ never
Selected into HOF Tiny yes KJ NO
Named NBA TOp 50 TIny yes KJ NO
Played major role on a title team Tiny Yes KJ NEVER
Lead league in Assist Tiny yes KJ NO
Maybe there are about 5 guys that should have made the top 50 like
Mac,Dominique,Dantley its just KJ isnt one of them

Im KICKING your AZZ
Dummy
By the way if you read all the post just as many agree with me as agree with you so maybe your the one thats CRazy
DUmmy

[Niquesports]

Jordan got it done. Kobe got it done. T-Mac got it done. Iverson got it done. etc. etc. etc. They all got it done without any All-Stars. They showed it's possible to lead a team without much talent to the playoffs if you are good enogh.


Tiny Archibald, the well deserved HOF (no degrading ANYONE's credentials), played with 1 All-Star or 2 borderline All-Stars in many years and didn't get it done. Only once in his prime did he have a non-losing season.


And I think posters see this now. Also, you are totally missing the 2nd big factor Team success impacts. One is of course, team success it self. The 2nd one I haven't talked about since earlier in the thread.

This is a perfect example of people that think basketball began with Jordan.
idots like this fool have no understanding that in the 70's only the top 4 team smade the playoffs unlike today when it seems like every team makes it.
Example does anyone think the Hornets are one of the top 4 teams in the West if not then does that mean Chris Paul fall short on team success or does it just mean that the Lakers,Nuggets,Spurs,Rockets,Mavs are just better "TEAMS" . Let me give you an example you say why cant a great player get his team into the playoffs lets see what some other great players did lets say in 72-73 Tiny's wonderful season.

CLev misses playoffs with
Lenny Wikins and Austin Carr

Detroit Missess playoffs with
Bob Lanier
Dave Bing

Golden State misses playoffs with
RIck Barry
Nate Thurmond
Jeff Mullins
Cazzie Russell

The Suns miss playoffs with
Charlie Scott
Neal Walk
Connie Hawkins
Dick Van Arsdale (the better of the Van Arsdale brothers)

KNow I know its hard for you and your other new to basketball fans to understand but inthe 70's it took an elite team to make the playoffs unlike today when only the weak of the weak fail to make the playoffs.

YOu asked me what other great failed to lead his team to the playoffs iin his prime
How about Dave Bing and Pistol Pete sure when Pete came to a playoff Atlanta team but as soon as he took over as team leading scorer and was traded which would be his prime he failed to make the playoffs

Down Goes GP Down Goes GP
BIG DUMMY

[GP_20]

I can't even laugh anymore. I didn't think it was possible for someone to be this stupid till I met Niquesports. Is this pleezbelieve's alias?


1st Post: There are more holes in that post than sentences. I don't think I even need to reply. Better idea, just read it again and delete it yourself.

2nd Post: We are talking non-losing seasons, playoffs isn't necessary. I've said this now 15 times. You still don't get it. I can't help you. Non-losing seasons. NOT playoffs.


Oh by the way, no one has said Niquesports good point ,etc. How many have said Niquesports you are stupid and are getting owned by Glove, or good points Glove.

This is not rocket science man. When everyone has said you are getting owned, then you are getting owned. We aren't crazy, you are.

[Sir Charles]

1-Magic
2-Stockton
3-Fraizer
4-Payton
5-Isiah

Ther rest is debatable but

I think Big O was more of a SG-Combo and MAravich too but that alone If they played the Point Purely they would probably be right up there and so would Pippen even the he was your typical Point Forward, and yes Best Perimeter Defender of All Time

Algo I THink KJ in his prime was around a Top 10 All TIme SG

[Niquesports]

I can't even laugh anymore. I didn't think it was possible for someone to be this stupid till I met Niquesports. Is this pleezbelieve's alias?


1st Post: There are more holes in that post than sentences. I don't think I even need to reply. Better idea, just read it again and delete it yourself.

2nd Post: We are talking non-losing seasons, playoffs isn't necessary. I've said this now 15 times. You still don't get it. I can't help you. Non-losing seasons. NOT playoffs.


Oh by the way, no one has said Niquesports good point ,etc. How many have said Niquesports you are stupid and are getting owned by Glove, or good points Glove.

This is not rocket science man. When everyone has said you are getting owned, then you are getting owned. We aren't crazy, you are.

Why dont you take the time to look back and see just how many people have disageed with you about KJ>Tiny but I understand just like your blind to anything someone shows you you only read post that support you.
Just like a DUmmy