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Old 09-20-2018, 08:21 PM   #271
Real Men Wear Green
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Im not so sure a job you can quit is being oppressed. I worked 6am to 8pm in the summers from age 12 on up. And I was doing harder work than making shoes. And it is not cool outside in the south in summer.

Was I oppressed making 60-100 dollars a week mixing concrete 60-70 hours a week at 12 years old? Sunday was the only day off. And I wasnt always given a choice.

Problem?
It could be argued that you were, and yours is a special case that would be extremely rare in America. May also have been your family's business or a friend of your family for that to happen. You would know better than I but if you were being pressed into this labor without your parents' consent someone could/should be getting sued.

Any Trump supporter that attacks Nike for the child labor business is a laughable jackass but it is still amoral at best and probably just evil.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:39 PM   #272
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Im not so sure a job you can quit is being oppressed. I worked 6am to 8pm in the summers from age 12 on up. And I was doing harder work than making shoes. And it is not cool outside in the south in summer.

Was I oppressed making 60-100 dollars a week mixing concrete 60-70 hours a week at 12 years old? Sunday was the only day off. And I wasnt always given a choice.

Problem?
Quote:
Because of a shortage of labor in Malaysia and poor employment opportunities in their home countries, a recent influx of workers have come from Bangladesh and other areas into Malaysia.

Nike confirmed many of the recent migrant laborers paid a fee in their home country to agents to get the jobs. And once in Malaysia, the factory held their passports.

Their wages were also withheld until a $375 foreign worker fee the Malaysian government requires from the factory is repaid. Nike says the fee is less than a quarter of their average annual income.

The workers were also forced to live in cramped, filthy factory-provided housing
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5503956&page=1
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:45 AM   #273
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It could be argued that you were, and yours is a special case that would be extremely rare in America. May also have been your family's business or a friend of your family for that to happen. You would know better than I but if you were being pressed into this labor without your parents' consent someone could/should be getting sued.

Any Trump supporter that attacks Nike for the child labor business is a laughable jackass but it is still amoral at best and probably just evil.


My parents were the ones sending me to do it. My stepfather was a contractor and I worked with him. Usually by choice...sometimes just being woken up out of nowhere at 5 in the summer because he needed me. I wasnt asked if I wanted to. Iwas told to get up and go to work. I didnt think much of it. No different than being told to cut the grass or help my grandfather in his field.

Just...work.

I never got paid more than 100 dollars at any time. And I often didnt get anything. I helped build a hotel, a church, a gas station, and several homes as a preteen rushed off site if inspectors were coming. I put in the sink at a gas station a few miles from me. Still there...so I must have done ok.

Back then nobody gave a shit. I wasnt the only kid out there either.

I cut grass for 5 bucks when I was 8-10 or so. Moved up to being a helper with my stepfather. Then got jobs on my own.

Ive always worked. I dont really oppose child labor fundamentally. I oppose dangerous child labor. More kids should have summer jobs to me. Bunch of fat kids on fortnite. I cant imagine being allowed to sit home all summer in middle school. Even if not working someone would have made me get out of the house.

I bet we would have less lazy adults if we let more kids work. I dont see why 12 year olds cant push carts for a grocery store or clean up offices....wash dishes.

It happened for all of human history all over the world till somewhat recently.

Of course im not talking some brutal against your will work in a mine or a dangerous factory. But working in general?

Yea...im cool with child labor. I dont know why anyone 10-14 cant rake leaves in the fall. No kid in my sphere of influence if gonna sit online all day with money literally laying on the neighbors lawn waiting to be raked up.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:28 AM   #274
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

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Originally Posted by warriorfan


If we are gonna blame companies for the plight of migrant workers you pretty much have to end international manufacturing.

That isnt a nike issue. Thats an international worker issue no matter what.

You read those stories on every sector that employs migrants. Read up on what the UAE does to migrants. Not just factory workers. Dudes come in to work for a cab company and have to show passports as ID. They say they are processing their papers...and hold the passport till a 2 year contract is up. Guys driving a cab 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 1000 dollars a month.

Read up on what the Africans go through in asian countries. The asians in other Asian countries. They are damn near captives. Hell some of the work done in some north African countries is done by actual 100% modern day slaves. Same for vietnam. Thailands fishing industry is powered by straight up slaves. They still sell the shrimp in Walmart.

This isnt a nike discussion. The only way to prevent this kinda thing is to stop farming out work to the places Americans never see to begin with. All these companies stay a step or two removed by hiring big local companies....to hire different small local contractors to do the work. So you can say you dont actually employ any of the people being mistreated.

Nike factories are apparently a step up from most though. Read up on the fishing slaves in Thailand. Some come there LOOKING to work in a so called sweat shop making shoes. Thats what they consider a good job. They arent told that the extras who show up after shoe jobs are filled get their paperwork sold to a shrimp boat that will work them 22 hours a day and "pay" them in the cost of their room and board and direct the extra money to buying back their contracts over a period of years. End result? 22 hour work days for no wages....beaten if you try to leave.

A shoe factory is a step up for a lot of the people you are talking about. Especially one like nike that has people occasionally watching. The unannounced stop ins by reporters? Many report better conditions than in most factories there. They are "sweat shops" in that its a non air conditioned building in the summer....in a jungle. But its no hotter than all the other jobs poor people have in those places.

It offends our American sensibilities but those people WANT those jobs in most cases.

Id work in a Nike factory before a great many jobs those people have. For a migrant worker thats....not cushy....but better than a lot of stories you read.

Google what the construction workers on Trumps new hotel/golf course in Dubai are going through. 14 hour days. 200 dollars a month....often paid months late.

Thats what it is to have a job working for a big American company that sub contracts local work to keep their hands clean.

You have a problem with that you just have to stop buy anything made outside maybe 10-15 first world countries. Anywhere you find people down to work for 5 bucks a day you find people willing to take advantage of them.

You cant even fully get away from that here. Migrant workers who pick fruit in the south west get ****ed over too.


Stop buying things made by poor people.

Thats the only way to not support those practices.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:33 AM   #275
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Really....on one side we have Nike with the sweatshops...on the other we have Trump with:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017...y=90&auto=webp


Where:

Quote:
More than half of the workers said Al Arif had withheld one or two months of pay to pressure them to remain until the end of their contracts, typically two years.

Six of the workers said they had paid recruitment companies to get their jobs — an apparent violation of United Arab Emirates’ labor law. They have been charged fees of $1,000 to $1,500, more than most will earn in five months.

All the workers said their employer held their passports, which also violates national law. This effectively makes it impossible for them to seek better positions elsewhere.


Thats how it works. They charge them huge fees to get the job/process paperwork which effectively makes it debt bondage where they can get away with not releasing a passport till the contract is satisfied. So they cant leave the country. Meanwhile you "pay" them in the food and housing they get so whats left isnt enough to save up to buy back the contract before its complete. So what is it really? Juuuuuuuust shy of slavery id say. Its a 2 year contract to be a slave.....with the difference being you can technically leave...you just dont have your passport to qualify for a different job. So youre what then? Homeless and begging 3000 miles from home? Good way to keep people working isnt it?

That isnt a Nike issue. A trump issue. A Walmart issue.

Thats a poor people being exploited worldwide issue.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:40 AM   #276
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
If we are gonna blame companies for the plight of migrant workers you pretty much have to end international manufacturing.

That isnt a nike issue. Thats an international worker issue no matter what.

You read those stories on every sector that employs migrants. Read up on what the UAE does to migrants. Not just factory workers. Dudes come in to work for a cab company and have to show passports as ID. They say they are processing their papers...and hold the passport till a 2 year contract is up. Guys driving a cab 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 1000 dollars a month.

Read up on what the Africans go through in asian countries. The asians in other Asian countries. They are damn near captives. Hell some of the work done in some north African countries is done by actual 100% modern day slaves. Same for vietnam. Thailands fishing industry is powered by straight up slaves. They still sell the shrimp in Walmart.

This isnt a nike discussion. The only way to prevent this kinda thing is to stop farming out work to the places Americans never see to begin with. All these companies stay a step or two removed by hiring big local companies....to hire different small local contractors to do the work. So you can say you dont actually employ any of the people being mistreated.

Nike factories are apparently a step up from most though. Read up on the fishing slaves in Thailand. Some come there LOOKING to work in a so called sweat shop making shoes. Thats what they consider a good job. They arent told that the extras who show up after shoe jobs are filled get their paperwork sold to a shrimp boat that will work them 22 hours a day and "pay" them in the cost of their room and board and direct the extra money to buying back their contracts over a period of years. End result? 22 hour work days for no wages....beaten if you try to leave.

A shoe factory is a step up for a lot of the people you are talking about. Especially one like nike that has people occasionally watching. The unannounced stop ins by reporters? Many report better conditions than in most factories there. They are "sweat shops" in that its a non air conditioned building in the summer....in a jungle. But its no hotter than all the other jobs poor people have in those places.

It offends our American sensibilities but those people WANT those jobs in most cases.

Id work in a Nike factory before a great many jobs those people have. For a migrant worker thats....not cushy....but better than a lot of stories you read.

Google what the construction workers on Trumps new hotel/golf course in Dubai are going through. 14 hour days. 200 dollars a month....often paid months late.

Thats what it is to have a job working for a big American company that sub contracts local work to keep their hands clean.

You have a problem with that you just have to stop buy anything made outside maybe 10-15 first world countries. Anywhere you find people down to work for 5 bucks a day you find people willing to take advantage of them.

You cant even fully get away from that here. Migrant workers who pick fruit in the south west get ****ed over too.


Stop buying things made by poor people.

Thats the only way to not support those practices.

Agree 100%. Def not isolated to a Nike problem, but at the same time that doesnít change the hippocracy of Nike portraying themselves as champions of the people. The ****ed up thing is Nike doesnít care about social justice or anything like that, they are fronting like they do for an image that they think will sell them more shit.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:33 AM   #277
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Pretty much everybody only cares up to the point it starts to negatively affect them though. I give to charity. I donate every check and I always have a few dollars to buy a homeless person meals. I buy the places that give away back to school supplies yearly.

I also spend enough on frivolous activity to actually put several people up in a home and get them off the street. Do I do it? No.

Nobody is as concerned as they act.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:24 AM   #278
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Where was Nike and Lebron when Marbury was doing the whole cheap shoe Starbury thing? Something real and tangible to help people? Oh yeah they were out there promoting and selling overpriced crap.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:33 PM   #279
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

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Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
Where was Nike and Lebron when Marbury was doing the whole cheap shoe Starbury thing? Something real and tangible to help people? Oh yeah they were out there promoting and selling overpriced crap.
Dunno about Nike but LeBron was a teenager
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:12 PM   #280
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

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Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
Where was Nike and Lebron when Marbury was doing the whole cheap shoe Starbury thing? Something real and tangible to help people? Oh yeah they were out there promoting and selling overpriced crap.


You can buy cheap nikes. Just not the ones most kids want. You can go buy some shitty nikes for 25-30 bucks. They sell Converse all stars for 30-35 dollars now. Starburys were 10+ years ago and the place that sold them went out of business. Couldnt have been doing that much business.

Making a shoe cheap doesnt do anything real to help people....if the people dont want it. There have been 15 dollar sneakers people dont want forever. Shaq shoes have been 20-30 dollars at Kmart and walmart for 20 years. You dont see many people wearing them.

Starburys were out a few months before kids often didnt want them. There is a stigma around only being able to afford the cheapest shit and all you do by making everyone know you sell a budget product....is get kids picked on.

Moms give interviews about how much money they save. Kid goes to school and gets clowned for his Kmart shoes. Not all kids...but some kids are just prone to being picked on. The shoes dont help. A kid who has some social skills...doesnt matter. The kinda kids who worry about appearances and all and dont have many friends? Yea....they didnt want Marbury shoes. Or Shaq shoes. Or 30 years ago "Buddies" that cost 1.99. Ive been buying kids school clothes for 25 years. Kids do not want Payless and Kmart shoes given the choice.

Nike didnt create the world where people dont wanna be seen in poor people attire. People have been not wanting to be seen in ___ because its cheap since long before nike existed.

Thats human nature shit. Plenty of people didnt want a hyundai back in the day. Or a kia. Yea its 8,000 dollars new. And everyone knows it.

You dont sell high end products just on their real world worth. You sell it with human vanity.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:51 PM   #281
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Default Re: NIKE decides to pour gas on the fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
You can buy cheap nikes. Just not the ones most kids want. You can go buy some shitty nikes for 25-30 bucks. They sell Converse all stars for 30-35 dollars now. Starburys were 10+ years ago and the place that sold them went out of business. Couldnt have been doing that much business.

Making a shoe cheap doesnt do anything real to help people....if the people dont want it. There have been 15 dollar sneakers people dont want forever. Shaq shoes have been 20-30 dollars at Kmart and walmart for 20 years. You dont see many people wearing them.

Starburys were out a few months before kids often didnt want them. There is a stigma around only being able to afford the cheapest shit and all you do by making everyone know you sell a budget product....is get kids picked on.

Moms give interviews about how much money they save. Kid goes to school and gets clowned for his Kmart shoes. Not all kids...but some kids are just prone to being picked on. The shoes dont help. A kid who has some social skills...doesnt matter. The kinda kids who worry about appearances and all and dont have many friends? Yea....they didnt want Marbury shoes. Or Shaq shoes. Or 30 years ago "Buddies" that cost 1.99. Ive been buying kids school clothes for 25 years. Kids do not want Payless and Kmart shoes given the choice.

Nike didnt create the world where people dont wanna be seen in poor people attire. People have been not wanting to be seen in ___ because its cheap since long before nike existed.

Thats human nature shit. Plenty of people didnt want a hyundai back in the day. Or a kia. Yea its 8,000 dollars new. And everyone knows it.

You dont sell high end products just on their real world worth. You sell it with human vanity.

Come on bruh no one is saying Nike created the capitalist “wants are limitless” game. Nike are just exploiting it like the next jerk off company would. Yes cheap shit is availble from all these companies, but at least Marbury openly tried to influence culture with a positive marketing campaign while starting a conversation on an issue that includes globalism, price mark up, single parent homes, street vanity and violence. Nike and its athletes had a chance to speak out on these things back then and didn’t.

Last edited by Norcaliblunt : 09-21-2018 at 03:15 PM.
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