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Old 03-08-2009, 11:22 AM   #16
Yung D-Will
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete's montreux
Billups top five point guard? Um, no.

Right now? He sure is playing like it
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:23 AM   #17
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by Yung D-Will
Right now? He sure is playing like it

That may be, but to call Billups a point guard is an insult to real point guards.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by pete's montreux
That may be, but to call Billups a point guard is an insult to real point guards.

True lol but thats the same thing I said about Baron Davis and pepole said i was crazy
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Pretty strong words from Charlie Rosen today regarding the CP3 / Williams debate. His opinion may surprise you.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9308066/Who's-better----CP3-or-Williams?
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
Pretty strong words from Charlie Rosen today regarding the CP3 / Williams debate. His opinion may surprise you.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9308066/Who's-better----CP3-or-Williams?

+1 for posting that o.O
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:35 AM   #21
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by lakerfreak
To me he is a combo guard who leads his team in assists.

Good enough to consider him a PG to me.

No, he is a point guard. Which is why it was so funny to laugh at the kids who say Deron is a better point than Roy. If Roy was the true point he would get 10 assists per game.

Kobe in a way turns into a point in crunch time. Think of it like that. Roy just passes more through out the game.

Anyway, Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

What is indisputable is that in College Deron Williams was better, not neccessarily on offense but as a defender D-Will locked people down.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

That's a pretty decent Top 5.
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Old 03-08-2009, 03:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

1. Paul
2. Williams
3. Parker
4. Billups
5. Nash
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by pete's montreux
Billups top five point guard? Um, no.

Sure he is, look at the difference he made when he got traded.
Detroit become a sub .500 team and Denver were like the 3rd best team in the west all season long.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Paul, Williams, Billups, Parker and Harris I'd say are the best five PG's in the league.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

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Originally Posted by plowking
I'd say the teams are even if not slightly in favor of Paul if anything.
I don't know about that. Paul has a decent second option in West but that's basically it. Peja and Chandler have been pretty mediocre this season. Williams on the other hand has two All Star caliber big men in Boozer and Okur who can both stretch the floor, Kirilenko is a SF who can do a little bit of everything and Millsap has proven he's a very good player.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Right, but not because of his ability to run the offense. Once again, I'm not arguing he isn't a great player, I'm arguing calling him a point guard, when he's not.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Pretty good list. Personally I would have put Devin Harris on the list instead of Nash, but that is just me and I guess I value two sides of the ball instead of just offense.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: What did you think of Mark Jackson's top 5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
Pretty strong words from Charlie Rosen today regarding the CP3 / Williams debate. His opinion may surprise you.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9308066/Who's-better----CP3-or-Williams?
Let's look at his points:

1. He's much stronger than CP3 and should therefore be more resistant to serious injuries.

Having a larger build and more strength doesn't prevent injuries. Look at a guy like Baron Davis, who is arguably the most naturally physically gifted PG ever. He has a large build and is very strong, yet has had injury problems all his career. Injuries can't be put into a generalized size, because it just doesn't work that way. Also, if this point is about contact, Paul has been improving his jumper, so in later stages of his career, he won't have to look to go inside as often, and thus won't keep getting hit as much which would aide in his longevity.

2. Because of his size and strength, Williams can post up smaller opponents (like Paul), and can avoid being posted himself (unlike Paul).

I agree with this to a limited extent. Points that post aren't common, and when there are guys who do that, they don't do it that often. Also, Paul's strength is underrated. I've seen larger points try to post him up, and fail in doing so. I really don't see this being a factor over the extent of his career.

3. It should be expected that an injury or Father Time will eventually diminish Paul's amazing speed and quickness — and when speed guards lose a step, their effectiveness is greatly reduced.

This is related to #1. Paul, in developing his jump shot, will be able to counter the natural decay of his physical abilities. He has the skills that allow him to play effectively, and doesn't rely on pure athleticism to perform at a high level.

4. Williams is much more versatile, so much so that it's not inconceivable he could make a successful switch to the shooting-guard spot as he ages.

When did this become a factor? When did the league want their point guards to play other positions? Is it nice? Sure, but it's hardly ever utilized. Brandon Roy can play both. A guy like that is good when an injury happens, or when there's such a vast hole in talent, but there's little use in today's game for a point to be able to play other positions.

5. Williams is a much, much better jump-shooter than CP3.

This just isn't true anymore. Much better? No. It was true their first two years, but Paul has improved his midrange and 3 point range shooting, and there isn't a substantial gap between the two players anymore. One thing that does help Deron in this area is his height, which would allow him to avoid being blocked more than Paul.

6. Whereas Paul does most of his half-court scoring in conjunction with high screen/rolls, Williams benefits from weak-side screens, staggered screens, and isolations.

So we are now judging their effectiveness as players on what offense their coach runs? Irrelevant. Both players have yet to play on other teams with different systems, so judging their talents based on Sloan and Scott, as well as how well their teammates play doesn't hold weight in this discussion.

7. Williams goes left better than Paul.

I haven't payed enough attention on this specific point, other than to say: 1. Having watched them, I don't see Paul being so deficient in this area as to be a weakness, and 2. Paul seems to use fakes and hesitations so well, that he gets where he needs to go anyhow, so how much does this point, if true, even really matter?

8. In half-court situations, Williams' power makes him a better finisher.

Finally a good point. Deron is a much better finisher because of his size. He can get above the rim and finish on players more easily than Paul, who usually relies upon floaters or layups off the high glass. With that being said, guys like Tony Parker have done just fine with playing below opponents around the basket.

9. Paul is a sniper-type defender, while Williams' defense is more fundamental and less chancy.

Paul likes to roam, play the lanes, and help on post players. They are different types of defenders, both styles fit well with their respective teams.

"None of this is meant to suggest that Paul is anything less than the most dangerous speed guard in the league. He's also an incredible passer, and he plays in a system that maximizes his considerable skills.

But, I'll bet your mortgage that Williams will have a better all-around career than Paul."

What does "better all-around" career mean? Longer? More successful? both? Does Isaiah Thomas have a better career than Jason Kidd? This entire discussion was about who would have the better career. Well, some may feel prime performance and some may look at longevity. What defines a career is subjective, so I really don't know what his point is on this, unless I get a clearer explanation on what he feels that means.

Also, I'm not trying to diminish Deron at all, I'm simply saying that these differences, while significant in the KIND of players they are, aren't really big factors in the success of these players' careers.

Last edited by Showtime : 03-08-2009 at 05:18 PM.
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