if/when wade wins five plus rings, is he higher than kobe on the all time list?

[tpols]

I was just stating facts. Kobe needed 7 shots and 2 FT's more than Wade to score 8 more points.

Kobe was more efficient in his sidekick rings. Fact. Wade shot 51TS.. thats basically a point per shot.. so even if we assumed Wade would score on the same efficiency at a much higher volume, he would need those 8 possesions(7 shots + 2 FTs) to score the 8-9 extra points.

Of course he has less assists and rebounds per game as well.. and nowhere near the crunctime numbers..

19/5/5 51TS versus 28/7/5 53TS.. these numbers are not close

I could also bring up the fact that Kobe played with a top 5 GOAT and performed significantly worse in the Finals, compared to the previous rounds, but that would be overkill.

So did Wade.. Bran will surely finish top 5 GOAT and ahead of Shaq by the time he retires. He will end with just as many if not more titles as the man, more accolades, triple the MVPs etc. So that argument actually works against you.

Wade only performed exceptional in 2011 Finals and even then they dont stack up to the defensive opponents LA faced in their Finals

2011 Mavs D-Rating: 105
2000 Pacers D-Rating: 103.6
2001 Sixers D-Rating: 98.9
2002 Nets D-Rating: 99.5

And this was in a tougher defensive era.

Of course Lakers toughest tests were out west as the East was generally weaker back then and had to rely on slow grind it out defensive strategy similar to what current pacers/bulls employ to compensate for lack of talent. So when put into perspective, the earlier rounds were actually more critical for Kobe to have played well in if LA wanted to win.

Wade scored 7.3 points on 56% in the 4th quarters of the 2011 Finals. That's about 30% of his total scoring. He did this while trying to get LeBron involved in the offensive schemes and trying to get him going.

Stop being such an insecure little bitch all the time. I NEVER said Wade would be higher than Kobe all time even with 5 rings. He won't. I was just trying to point out that TS% in this case is a bit misleading, relating to their efficiencies.

Its not misleading at all.. Wade has shot on poor efficiency the past two years. Kobe's efficiency was mediocre.. not bad but not great. It was however better than Wade's.. and the fact that it was done on much higher volume makes it a a moot point anyway.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Career wise he cant catch-up, its practically impossible. Being top ten GOAT requires a lot of luck. If dwade had a better team from 08-11 and grabbed an mvp or if he grabbed the fmvp in 2011 then he wouldve had a slim shot

Dude, even discounting his injury in 2007 that derailed an MVP season. Or his 2008 that was wasted on a bad roster, with even more injuries.

If Wade had happened to snag a very deserving MVP award in 2009, and LeBron doesn't choke in the 2011 Finals, allowing Wade to get his rightfully earned Finals MVP

You're looking at:
4x champion
MVP
2x Finals MVP

That would be right on par accolade wise with Kobe Bryant.

[tpols]

Dude, even discounting his injury in 2007 that derailed an MVP season. Or his 2008 that was wasted on a bad roster, with even more injuries.

If Wade had happened to snag a very deserving MVP award in 2009, and LeBron doesn't choke in the 2011 Finals, allowing Wade to get his rightfully earned Finals MVP

You're looking at:
4x champion
MVP
2x Finals MVP

That would be right on par accolade wise with Kobe Bryant.

Dwayne Wade has finished top five MVP voting just 2 times in his career..

Kobe has finished top five 11 times.. in a row.


One hypothetical MVP doesnt make up that difference..

[red1]

Dude, even discounting his injury in 2007 that derailed an MVP season. Or his 2008 that was wasted on a bad roster, with even more injuries.

If Wade had happened to snag a very deserving MVP award in 2009, and LeBron doesn't choke in the 2011 Finals, allowing Wade to get his rightfully earned Finals MVP

You're looking at:
4x champion
MVP
2x Finals MVP

That would be right on par accolade wise with Kobe Bryant.

Yeah man. The last two championships boosted his ranking over many players but its just not the same as a fmvp

[funnystuff]

Hold up, don't people always say Kobe should never be classed as great because he supposedly rode Shaq's coat tails to his first 3 rings?

If so, Wade should never be considered greater or even in the same sentence because the same rule should apply, it can be said he rode Shaq and LeBron's coat tails to the rings he has now.

Fair is fair

Nobody says that.

But Wade is more important to the Heat than Kobe was to Shaq's Lakers.

[aj1987]

Kobe was more efficient in his sidekick rings. Fact. Wade shot 51TS.. thats basically a point per shot.. so even if we assumed Wade would score on the same efficiency at a much higher volume, he would need those 8 possesions(7 shots + 2 FTs) to score the 8-9 extra points.

Of course he has less assists and rebounds per game as well.. and nowhere near the crunctime numbers..

19/5/5 51TS versus 28/7/5 53TS.. these numbers are not close

Again, I don't know why you insist on bring up those numbers. They aren't even close and I agree with. When did I ever say otherwise?!

So did Wade.. Bran will surely finish top 5 GOAT and ahead of Shaq by the time he retires. He will end with just as many if not more titles as the man, more accolades, triple the MVPs etc. So that argument actually works against you.

Don't give a shit. Wade has literally 0 chance of surpassing Kobe, career wise. Unless Wade finds the fountain of youth and wins 1 MVP and 2 FMVP's, he's not gonna be ranked above Kobe.

Wade only performed exceptional in 2011 Finals and even then they dont stack up to the defensive opponents LA faced in their Finals

2011 Mavs D-Rating: 105
2000 Pacers D-Rating: 103.6
2001 Sixers D-Rating: 98.9
2002 Nets D-Rating: 99.5

And this was in a tougher defensive era.

Of course Lakers toughest tests were out west as the East was generally weaker back then and had to rely on slow grind it out defensive strategy similar to what current pacers/bulls employ to compensate for lack of talent. So when put into perspective, the earlier rounds were actually more critical for Kobe to have played well in if LA wanted to win.

Are we gonna ignore the fact that he played against the '11 Celtics, the '12 Pacers, Knicks, and Celtics, who all had D-Rtg's, between 98 and 103? Or the Spurs who had a 101 and OKC, who had a 103 D-Rtg?

Its not misleading at all.. Wade has shot on poor efficiency the past two years. Kobe's efficiency was mediocre.. not bad but not great. It was however better than Wade's.. and the fact that it was done on much higher volume makes it a a moot point anyway.

Wade actually did shoot at a pretty decent clip the past 2 seasons. TS% takes FT shooting into account. Kobe got more FT's and hence the better TS%. FG% wise, Wade was better. He shot 46%. Wade took 17 shots (6 FT's) to score 20 points and Kobe took 23 shots (8 FT's) to score 28 points.

[red1]

Dwayne Wade has finished top five MVP voting just 2 times in his career..

Kobe has finished top five 11 times.. in a row.


One hypothetical MVP doesnt make up that difference..

Dwade is underrated. Now he is a shell of what of he was and will never catch kobe in the rankings but Ive seen both players play and dwade is the better player

[tpols]

Dwade is underrated. Now he is a shell of what of he was and will never catch kobe in the rankings but Ive seen both players play and dwade is the better player

I have seen them both as well.. and totally disagree. It is your opinion, however.. just wont be much to back it up.

[red1]

I have seen them both as well.. and totally disagree. It is your opinion, however.. just wont be much to back it up.

Yeah. No way of proving it but believe me I would put money on it

[FPJ]

I'm not gonna say who the better player was (they were pretty close in their primes) but im gonna state the obvious...Kobe had one of the luckiest carriers while Wade had one of the unluckiest. Im not trying to put down players, but a healthy Wade would have been amazing and im 90% sure he would have knocked on the Top 10 door.

[tpols]

I'm not gonna say who the better player was (they were pretty close in their primes) but im gonna state the obvious...Kobe had one of the luckiest carriers while Wade had one of the unluckiest. Im not trying to put down players, but a healthy Wade would have been amazing and im 90% sure he would have knocked on the Top 10 door.

Have you ever thought Wade's style of play would lend him to being more injury prone? Wade slashes and seeks out contact all game long.. Kobe does it as a last resort if his move failed, but is generally a jump shooter/finesse player.


If Kobe went hard to the basket every play and never settled, hed break down too.. instead he relied on a more polished, skill based game which may have been less efficient, but it allowed him to be dominant for a much much longer time.. similar to how MJ played after he no longer had the athleticism. Wade never polished his game to that level. Wades jumper goes MIA all the time and teams were flat out giving him jumpers in last years playoffs.


At some point youre going to have to give Kobe credit for perfecting his craft and lose this luck bullshit.

[FPJ]

Have you ever thought Wade's style of play would lend him to being more injury prone? Wade slashes and seeks out contact all game long.. Kobe does it as a last resort if his move failed, but is generally a jump shooter/finesse player.


If Kobe went hard to the basket every play and never settled, hed break down too.. instead he relied on a more polished, skill based game which may have been less efficient, but it allowed him to be dominant for a much much longer time.. similar to how MJ played after he no longer had the athleticism. Wade never polished his game to that level. Wades jumper goes MIA all the time and teams were flat out giving him jumpers in last years playoffs.


At some point youre going to have to give Kobe credit for perfecting his craft and lose this luck bullshit.

1st one, 2005 playoffs (second year). Its bad luck if you ask me

The Heat's playoff run was stopped by the Detroit Pistons, the previous season's champions, in 7 games in the Eastern Conference Finals. Wade scored 42 and 36 points in Games 2 and 3 respectively despite playing with sinusitis, the flu, and a knee strain. He also suffered a strained rib muscle in Game 5 of the Conference Finals that prevented him from playing in the series' sixth game[20] and limited him in the seventh.The Heat lost the series in the seventh game despite leading three games to two after the fifth game and holding a lead with three minutes remaining in Game 7

Shoulder injury.

February 21, 2007, while attempting to steal the ball from Shane Battier, Wade dislocated his left shoulder.After missing 23 games to recover from the injury, Wade returned to the active roster.

Following the playoffs, Wade underwent a pair of successful surgeries to repair his dislocated left shoulder and left knee. The knee ailment, commonly called "jumper's knee", prevented Wade from joining USA Basketball in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament over the summer

Wade was early in his career, you cant attribute the injuries to excessive use, not to mention he injured himself in some of the most bad timing situations.

[hahaitme]

Career wise, I think Kobe is going to have the better accolades. Any rings Wade wins from this point out I can't really see him getting FMVP for. But that's because he's playing with LeBron.

In saying that, I also think Wade is going to be healthy come playoffs time. They're managing him well and it feels like his condition is only getting better and better over time. I expect him to come in hard especially if they end up meeting OKC in the finals.

[Lordsteven]

he'd have to win at least the same amount, if not more, FMVP to be considered better than kobe.

[fpliii]

1st one, 2005 playoffs (second year). Its bad luck if you ask me



Shoulder injury.






Wade was early in his career, you cant attribute the injuries to excessive use, not to mention he injured himself in some of the most bad timing situations.

Pretty much. Removing the meniscus from his knee in college was also a bad call, whoever gave him advice made his career path much more difficult.