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Old 08-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

I'm thinking the traditional version of this offense won't be ran.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Another brilliant post DK . Again, I like it when you educate rather than just say, oh Brown is an idiot. Period!.

Thanks guys......but I just want you to understand where I am coming from, seeing a coach of the team I have loved since 1960 who has less knowledge than even my 15 year old players boils my blood
I guarantee you that MB couldn't tell you a single thing about the Princeton, Triangle, Pick and Roll.......or fundamentals, anything other than isolation.
I could see this when he was coaching the Cavs and every NBA experienced person I have spoken to is very well aware that MB is not qualified.
I will probably still call him names.......it's not like I call any of you guys names , but I will also explain coaching and strategy issues more
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Thanks guys......but I just want you to understand where I am coming from, seeing a coach of the team I have loved since 1960 who has less knowledge than even my 15 year old players boils my blood
I guarantee you that MB couldn't tell you a single thing about the Princeton, Triangle, Pick and Roll.......or fundamentals, anything other than isolation.
I could see this when he was coaching the Cavs and every NBA experienced person I have spoken to is very well aware that MB is not qualified.
I will probably still call him names.......it's not like I call any of you guys names , but I will also explain coaching and strategy issues more


DK, Your comments offend me because I KNOW MB. I met him and his family and hes a nice guy. I met him and whenever The spurs played the lakers, he always had a ticket for me. We always chat it up about players and teams. I havent had the chance to talk with him ABOUT running an offense since he took over the lakeshow, but I will the next time that I see him.

When he was with the cavs, he explained to me that they ran the triangle but the players just didnt understand how the system worked. Mike Brown is a great coach and his offense is awesome. One thing he did tell me was that the lakers wanted to have Bynum work with Magic. They wanted bynum to develop some ball handling and play making abilities. They are working on it this summer. Thus, The reason why the offense will be implemented. They want Bynum to be a point center. After working with Magic, Mike Brown eventually wants Bynum to be playing some minutes at the pg and eventually take over as pg ala magic johnson.

Mike Brown Has this great offensive set, and it will work wonders next year. I will find out more, the next time I talk to him.


THE END.





lol. I'm just shiting you guys. This whole post was false. lol I really don't know Mike Brown, or have ever had the opportunity to talk to him. I have noticed that He was a good ASSISTANT coach under pop and learned a lot on the defensive end. Then, He got the gig with the cavs and Lebron really made that team go. They got lucky and made the finals, IN THE EAST.
I don't think he is CLUELESS on the offensive end, I just think he probably doesn't grasp a great concept of how to create a GREAT offense, so he simply goes with the iso, because he is lucky enough to have the top 2 guys (Specifically iso) in the league to do that for him.

i TRULY believe that hiring mike brown was a laker move in which they were doing a little combination of "Changing the culture of PJ, Implementing a new "defensive" oriented culture, Shedding some money and Mike brown just Happened to be the wrong guy, at the right time and place."

Meh. It is what its. I wasn't thrilled with the hiring. I read various reports that the lakers went out and basically said "We are giving a new coach a 4 year contract that is 3 mil each season. period. Theres no negotiating, it is what it is. Take it or leave it." Which is why we lost out on a couple of candidates and just ran with MB.

The great thing is we have some of the best offensive players in the league. We have the best play making point guard, with the most lethal, offensively gifted, with the widest repertoire, clutch-est shooting guard (And in the league for that matter. Applies for all traits), add probably the most versatile TRUE power forward and easily the Best scoring Center in all of basketball that includes variety of moves and the moves are actually efficient.
then theres METTA MAN. lmao.

Anyway. Just trying to spice things up, But I am REALLY looking forward to this season. I think Nash is going to take EVERYONE to the next level. INCLUDING the bean. I wouldnt put an mvp past him. Remember, His focus and energy is going all to scoring. This is going to be fun. Then Pau, IMO, goes back to being an elite player. Mark my words. (Although if you think, Pau was never actually GREAT when Andrew was healthy. Maybe they don't mesh) Pau will be Steve Nash's Amare. You wait and see, The big spanish will be back. Then, Andrew will just be spoon fed and won't be doubled. Andrew will truly flourish with a true point guard.

Then, our whole team will. Remember. Our guys (Metta, Barnes, whole bench) have struggled because they can't create for themselves and they havent had a point guard. NOW, you are adding steve nash, A guy who in phx makes a bunch of nobodies into somebodies.

You wait and see, but I think this Nash pick up will do wonders. Add a training camp and Mike Brown doesn't have to worry about offense.
Our guys can get it done. I can't wait. LETS GET IT!


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Old 08-03-2012, 12:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
DK, Your comments offend me because I KNOW MB. I met him and his family and hes a nice guy. I met him and whenever The spurs played the lakers, he always had a ticket for me. We always chat it up about players and teams. I havent had the chance to talk with him ABOUT running an offense since he took over the lakeshow, but I will the next time that I see him.

When he was with the cavs, he explained to me that they ran the triangle but the players just didnt understand how the system worked. Mike Brown is a great coach and his offense is awesome. One thing he did tell me was that the lakers wanted to have Bynum work with Magic. They wanted bynum to develop some ball handling and play making abilities. They are working on it this summer. Thus, The reason why the offense will be implemented. They want Bynum to be a point center. After working with Magic, Mike Brown eventually wants Bynum to be playing some minutes at the pg and eventually take over as pg ala magic johnson.

Mike Brown Has this great offensive set, and it will work wonders next year. I will find out more, the next time I talk to him.


THE END.





lol. I'm just shiting you guys. This whole post was false. lol I really don't know Mike Brown, or have ever had the opportunity to talk to him. I have noticed that He was a good ASSISTANT coach under pop and learned a lot on the defensive end. Then, He got the gig with the cavs and Lebron really made that team go. They got lucky and made the finals, IN THE EAST.
I don't think he is CLUELESS on the offensive end, I just think he probably doesn't grasp a great concept of how to create a GREAT offense, so he simply goes with the iso, because he is lucky enough to have the top 2 guys (Specifically iso) in the league to do that for him.

i TRULY believe that hiring mike brown was a laker move in which they were doing a little combination of "Changing the culture of PJ, Implementing a new "defensive" oriented culture, Shedding some money and Mike brown just Happened to be the wrong guy, at the right time and place."

Meh. It is what its. I wasn't thrilled with the hiring. I read various reports that the lakers went out and basically said "We are giving a new coach a 4 year contract that is 3 mil each season. period. Theres no negotiating, it is what it is. Take it or leave it." Which is why we lost out on a couple of candidates and just ran with MB.

The great thing is we have some of the best offensive players in the league. We have the best play making point guard, with the most lethal, offensively gifted, with the widest repertoire, clutch-est shooting guard (And in the league for that matter. Applies for all traits), add probably the most versatile TRUE power forward and easily the Best scoring Center in all of basketball that includes variety of moves and the moves are actually efficient.
then theres METTA MAN. lmao.

Anyway. Just trying to spice things up, But I am REALLY looking forward to this season. I think Nash is going to take EVERYONE to the next level. INCLUDING the bean. I wouldnt put an mvp past him. Remember, His focus and energy is going all to scoring. This is going to be fun. Then Pau, IMO, goes back to being an elite player. Mark my words. (Although if you think, Pau was never actually GREAT when Andrew was healthy. Maybe they don't mesh) Pau will be Steve Nash's Amare. You wait and see, The big spanish will be back. Then, Andrew will just be spoon fed and won't be doubled. Andrew will truly flourish with a true point guard.

Then, our whole team will. Remember. Our guys (Metta, Barnes, whole bench) have struggled because they can't create for themselves and they havent had a point guard. NOW, you are adding steve nash, A guy who in phx makes a bunch of nobodies into somebodies.

You wait and see, but I think this Nash pick up will do wonders. Add a training camp and Mike Brown doesn't have to worry about offense.
Our guys can get it done. I can't wait. LETS GET IT!




LMAO
That is what I call a great post MJ
Had me for a split second and then I cracked up loud
The real part you made some real good points. If Pau is ever going to play at an all-star level again, it is with Nash. If we get to the mid way point and Pau is the bad Pau we have to dump him.....but I really HOPE he picks it up to a higher level.
We have players with brilliant basketball minds.....I just hope MB doesn't screw things up.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
LMAO......for starters, why don't you watch the debate on this offense on ESPN's site between Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith, they both laughed at the thought of Princeton being run.

What the non-coaching astute think is the Princeton Offense being run by Adelman is actually a hybrid based on the principles of Princeton, it's called the Corner Series offense......as I said earlier, a true Princeton cannot be run in the NBA but a creative redesign of it can work. Adelman developed the "Corner" with the help of Pete Carril.

Now.....what made this work for Adelman is that he had one of the best passing Bigs combo in NBA history in CWebb and Vlade........Pau Gasol can pass, Bynum can't, and this would destroy the offense completely.....not to mention it would waste Bynum's advantages plus tire him out.
Adelman is not a one trick pony, he knows several offenses and can create and design offenses to fit his roster.....Brown can....um......tie his shoes

Hope this is understandable for you


Absolutely. And I honestly wasn't trying to put you on the spot, I really was just wondering because I had no idea the differences between the two.

As far as Bynum, he can pass WHEN he wants to. I've seen him make nice passes. Unfortunately for us, most of the time when he gets doubled, tripled, he doesn't pass. He's kinda a black hole on offense. It would be even worse if we got Dwight and then ran the princeton offense. He's like at what, 3 TO's a game and 1 assist?

My favorite thing with this team would be the sloan offense. Big guys that can finish, and two of the games' best high IQ guards on one team calls for pick n rolls, with some little tricks here and there would be the best option in my opinion.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

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Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Absolutely. And I honestly wasn't trying to put you on the spot, I really was just wondering because I had no idea the differences between the two.

As far as Bynum, he can pass WHEN he wants to. I've seen him make nice passes. Unfortunately for us, most of the time when he gets doubled, tripled, he doesn't pass. He's kinda a black hole on offense. It would be even worse if we got Dwight and then ran the princeton offense. He's like at what, 3 TO's a game and 1 assist?

My favorite thing with this team would be the sloan offense. Big guys that can finish, and two of the games' best high IQ guards on one team calls for pick n rolls, with some little tricks here and there would be the best option in my opinion.

Haha....don't worry, I know you weren't trying to put me on the spot at all......I wouldn't mind anyway, I actually joined ISH to talk coaching strategy and systems.......little did I know that the main board was full of idiot kids
I'm glad to have my Lakers brothers to communicate with, you guys are all the best

My friends who played for Sloan swear by him. And any coach who could make Karl Malone cower like a High School freshman definitely has my fullest respect Sloan is just like he played, tough as nails and no nonsense ever!!!!! I absolutely think we should run the same sets Sloan ran......perfect fit for our team
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Haha....don't worry, I know you weren't trying to put me on the spot at all......I wouldn't mind anyway, I actually joined ISH to talk coaching strategy and systems.......little did I know that the main board was full of idiot kids
I'm glad to have my Lakers brothers to communicate with, you guys are all the best

My friends who played for Sloan swear by him. And any coach who could make Karl Malone cower like a High School freshman definitely has my fullest respect Sloan is just like he played, tough as nails and no nonsense ever!!!!! I absolutely think we should run the same sets Sloan ran......perfect fit for our team

Hey man, just joined, but some of your stuff is amazing. Really well articulated on the finer points of how the Princeton offense works and how the lakers would adapt it.

Could you elaborate more on how Sloan's offense would fit? Don't know much about it, I'm a bigger fan of ball movement teams myself, so Adleman is my guy.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #23
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

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Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
Hey man, just joined, but some of your stuff is amazing. Really well articulated on the finer points of how the Princeton offense works and how the lakers would adapt it.

Could you elaborate more on how Sloan's offense would fit? Don't know much about it, I'm a bigger fan of ball movement teams myself, so Adleman is my guy.

Sorry for my late response, I was coaching out of town and just got back a few minutes ago. Tired now but I will give you a bit of Sloan info tomorrow.
Welcome to ISH and the Lakers Forum Rubio2Gasol

Oh.....and thanks for the compliments.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
LMAO
That is what I call a great post MJ
Had me for a split second and then I cracked up loud
The real part you made some real good points. If Pau is ever going to play at an all-star level again, it is with Nash. If we get to the mid way point and Pau is the bad Pau we have to dump him.....but I really HOPE he picks it up to a higher level.
We have players with brilliant basketball minds.....I just hope MB doesn't screw things up.

Great post indeed by mean john.
Let me re-quote him again
Quote:
I don't think he is CLUELESS on the offensive end, I just think he probably doesn't grasp a great concept of how to create a GREAT offense, so he simply goes with the iso, because he is lucky enough to have the top 2 guys (Specifically iso) in the league to do that for him.


That is exactly my sentiment about Brown. Can't recall anybody here proclaiming he is a great coach.
But yes, I would still prefer Adelman or Jeff Van Gundy etc, but I dont think he is beneath average coaches in the league.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
One thing he did tell me was that the lakers wanted to have Bynum work with Magic. They wanted bynum to develop some ball handling and play making abilities. They are working on it this summer. Thus, The reason why the offense will be implemented. They want Bynum to be a point center. After working with Magic, Mike Brown eventually wants Bynum to be playing some minutes at the pg and eventually take over as pg ala magic johnson.

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Old 08-16-2012, 09:21 AM   #26
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

any news about hiring Eddie Jordan as an assistant?
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
It's not an insult to Nash, it is an insult to Mike Brown who has no idea what he's doing ( Sorry to be so redundant on this ). As I have been saying, ANY system is better than anything MB has come up with....or is capable of coming up with.
To say they'll be using the Princeton offense is like saying a Ferrari and an 18 wheeler are using tires. A traditional Princeton offense cannot work in the NBA, it will be used merely as a base that will have to be re-designed to work with the players we have (God help us). A quality head coach wouldn't do this but instead simply run a series of pick and rolls.......faster to learn, more effective and works perfectly with every player we have.
I mentioned most of last year that any good AAU/High school coach would destroy the entire league with the players we have running a pick and roll + 1......and now we have Nash......Damn, I'd love to drive that machine!!!!!
It's just a damn shame that our coach knows absolutely nothing about offense he won't know if what Eddie Jordan is doing is good or bad.....just has to trust him.

So from what I've literally just read on wikipedia/other sources as well as from my already existing knowledge of the triangle offense.. the princeton offense the Lakers want to implement would be, as you stated, severely modified to fit both Brown's limited knowledge of the offense (believe he implemented it in Cleveland) as well as the team's obvious predisposition to run the triangle. From what I've read the princeton offense relies mostly on spacing, a dominant big man a lot of off-ball action as "backdoor cutters are the hallmark of the offense". This would mean that the cutting action would be more central than the passing ability of Howard or the ability for Howard and Gasol to make three-pointers, which is at least above par from what i've seen. After Howard you have three of the greatest passers at their position in Nash, Bryant and Gasol.

While i seriously doubt Brown's offensive acumen I would think that his assistants in Kuester and Person know what their doing, or at least do their homework. I'm for any type of system that both the coach and the players can relate to.

Anyways in the end a new offensive system is good and well for the regular season but come crunch time in the playoffs it will essentially be kobe/nash+gasol/dwight pick and rolls as well as just feeding the ball down low to dwight and gasol.

Last edited by BlueandGold : 08-17-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lakers switching to Princeton Offense in '12-'13

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
So from what I've literally just read on wikipedia/other sources as well as from my already existing knowledge of the triangle offense.. the princeton offense the Lakers want to implement would be, as you stated, severely modified to fit both Brown's limited knowledge of the offense (believe he implemented it in Cleveland) as well as the team's obvious predisposition to run the triangle. From what I've read the princeton offense relies mostly on spacing, a dominant big man a lot of off-ball action as "backdoor cutters are the hallmark of the offense". This would mean that the cutting action would be more central than the passing ability of Howard or the ability for Howard and Gasol to make three-pointers, which is at least above par from what i've seen. After Howard you have three of the greatest passers at their position in Nash, Bryant and Gasol.

While i seriously doubt Brown's offensive acumen I would think that his assistants in Kuester and Person know what their doing, or at least do their homework. I'm for any type of system that both the coach and the players can relate to.

Anyways in the end a new offensive system is good and well for the regular season but come crunch time in the playoffs it will essentially be kobe/nash+gasol/dwight pick and rolls as well as just feeding the ball down low to dwight and gasol.

Well, I have to say that a HEALTHY Howard gives this severely modified offense a much better chance to succeed, my concern is rebounding and fatigue. I've never been a fan of having my Bigs running around away from the basket....in most cases they won't be available to get those easy putbacks.
If they get tired they will also lose their effectiveness at the defensive end including rebounding as they try to take a breather.

I neither trust Kuester nor Person to design or run an offense....seriously, what have they done in that regard? They were around last year and our offense was terrible, how could we expect them to be better???
Now if we get Eddie Jordan that would change things.

Kuester was a defensive specialist as a player at North Carolina, that's really his strength.

Can someone please explain to me WHY Chuck Person is not strictly sticking to being the team's shooting coach? Chuck "The Rifleman" Person is one of the greatest shooters in NBA history......yet Phil and Brown had him screwing around with the defense, Chuck never played a lick of defense in his entire career......that's like having your mechanic perform open heart surgery on you
As several others have mentioned, guys shooting gets worse when they come to the Lakers.....why isn't Chuck focusing on this???

Let's hope Eddie Jordan will be our savior.....if not, Mike D' is still available and he knows how to play Nash.
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