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Old 09-12-2013, 02:38 AM   #46
HarryCallahan
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
They're not flimsy, they're legally defined.

Yes, and poorly so. I can package organic peas and peas fertilized with sewage together and label it "organic" so long as the ratio is 20:1.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:40 AM   #47
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

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Originally Posted by gigantes
i know, i know...

giving up bread, pasta and crackers is pretty much like telling myself that i hate myself.


i'll just level, bro-- my family has really bad thyroid disease. such as, it shoots our inflammation way, way up regardless of what we eat, and we all pretty much die early of heart attacks and/or strokes.

i'm left with nothing here but a sense of brotherhood.

The min killer for my family is prostate cancer, so I can eat all the grainy carbs I want so long as I keep batin'.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:58 AM   #48
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

I eat raw meat all day everyday. Raw organic grass or pasture fed fresh from the Amish farm meat. Raw beef, raw bison, raw chicken, raw duck, raw lamb, raw elk, raw venison, raw livers, raw testies, raw spleens, raw thyroid glands, raw hearts, raw bone morrow, raw eggs, raw pork, etc etc. yeah I'm picky about my food because corporate assembly line shit can kill you on a diet like this.

I do find people addicted to bread funny. It's almost like drug addiction with the denial people show with the hostility when someone questions it. I was there once it can be conquered.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:41 AM   #49
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
The min killer for my family is prostate cancer, so I can eat all the grainy carbs I want so long as I keep batin'.
and don't forget to pick up the pot of gold every time a unicorn jumps over the nearest rainbow.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:45 AM   #50
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

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Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
What are the facts?
My question exactly.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:46 AM   #51
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

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Originally Posted by gigantes
and don't forget to pick up the pot of gold every time a unicorn jumps over the nearest rainbow.

I don't think I have time, with all my prostate "exercises"
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:54 AM   #52
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hateraid

The most purchased product in our industry is protein powder. Whey protein is no different than any form of meat/vegetable protein when it broken down into it's components. Therefor it's food. Is food a sham?

I think the people who are uneducated in supplements usually resort to calling it a sham
That's astounding irony. Do you actually believe this? All it takes is a simple google scholar search, or a simple understanding of the digestive system to grasp how ignorant this statement is. Or maybe, "uneducated"
Quote:
Meat Protein

When most people in the developed world think protein, they think beef. We're talking steaks, hamburgers, hot dogs, roast beef. We're talking "hungry man food." If you have any doubt, just look at pictures of a training table for most athletes. But how good is meat as a primary source of healthy protein?

On the plus side, meat protein is complete. It contains all the essential amino acids. And it's not particularly allergenic. On the other hand, it's not particularly concentrated -- containing only about 20% usable protein by weight. And meat protein is not particularly nutrient dense, inflicting a significant number of calories on your body along with the protein. It also tends to promote colon cancer -- particularly if grilled at high temperatures. And unless you're buying organic grass fed beef (you absolutely want organic), it also comes complete with high levels of antibiotics, pesticides, hormones, an unhealthy ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fatty acids, and the risk of E. coli contamination -- not to mention high levels of saturated fat.

You'll get about 23 grams of protein in a three ounce serving of beef, along with about 15 grams of fat. The biological value is about 70, and the net protein utilization is about 73.

Poultry Protein

Chicken and turkey are considered the "lighter," "less expensive" alternatives to beef. And in fact, lean turkey or chicken, without the skin, will provide about 27 grams of protein in a three ounce serving, along with about 2-3 grams of fat. Poultry has a biological value of about 80.

But unless you're eating organic, chicken protein, it also contains large amounts of antibiotics, arsenic (oh yes, it's a government approved additive), and of course chicken leukosis cancer tumors.

Fish Protein

Fish is a good high protein food. It contains reasonable amounts of quality protein, virtually no carbohydrates, and little saturated fat. Although the amount of fat and protein are about equal (5 grams in a 3 ounce serving), the fats tend to be highly beneficial Omega-3 fatty acids. Depending on the type of fish, its biological value ranges from 70-80, and it has a net protein utilization of 81, about the same as that found in poultry.

Unfortunately, if wild caught, it's likely to have high levels of mercury, and if farm-raised, high levels of antibiotics and dioxin.

Pork Protein

Back in the late 80's television ads helped to turn around declining demand for pork. The National Pork Board launched their remarkable repositioning campaign, "Pork, The Other White Meat." It worked. The campaign effectively made people equate pork to chicken, as opposed to beef.

Then came the bird flu scare, and suddenly any association with chicken was unacceptable as millions of chickens were being slaughtered worldwide to prevent the spread of avian flu. At that point, the pork producers launched their, "Pork, It's Not Chicken" campaign.

That said:

The old dictum that pork is unhealthier than beef or chicken simply is no longer true -- unless you are still eating pork raised in a third world country that allows pigs to feed on garbage -- or corpses for any of you who saw the movie Snatch.
Also, the old myth that pork is more indigestible than meat is likewise not true. That was just another way to warn people off pork when it was garbage fed. In fact, pork is slightly more digestible than beef.
But it's also slightly higher in fat.
It has all of the other problems associated with meat -- high in antibiotics, etc.
And "free range pork" is remarkably rare. Virtually all of the pork available in the United States comes from animal factories that are inherently cruel, literally driving the animals mad in response to their "living" conditions.
Milk Protein

The National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) estimate that 30 to 50 million Americans are lactose intolerant. These are people who cannot digest lactose, the sugar found in dairy products. According to the FDA, symptoms include gas, stomach cramps, diarrhea, etc. However, many others are also allergic to dairy products (lactose intolerance is not technically an allergy), specifically the proteins found in milk. In any case, these poorly digested bovine antigens (substances that provoke an immune reaction) like casein become "allergens" in allergic individuals. Dairy products are one of the leading causes of food allergies, often revealed by diarrhea, constipation, and fatigue. Many cases of asthma and sinus infections are reported to be relieved and even eliminated by completely cutting out dairy. The exclusion of dairy in your diet, however, must be 100% to see any real benefit. An 8 oz glass of milk will provide 8-9 grams of protein and 5-10 grams of fat. It has biological value of 80-90 and a net protein utilization of about 81.


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Old 09-12-2013, 04:01 AM   #53
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Differences between proteins (continued)
Quote:
Whey Protein

When it comes to protein supplementation now, whey is king. It has pushed aside milk based protein supplements, egg proteins, and soy proteins to totally dominate the field. Why? Quite simply is has an extremely high biological value ranging from 90-100 for whey concentrate and from 100-150 for whey isolate. It's also high in the branch chain amino acids and is quickly absorbed by the human body.

Unfortunately, it's also highly allergenic. The problem isn't lactose or casein (a major allergen in milk) since they are both either removed or at significantly reduced levels in whey. However, the main protein fractions in whey (beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, and bovine serum albumin) are all highly allergenic. In addition, whey tends to have much more cholesterol in it than would normally be recommended.

A question worth considering is how many people are actually allergic to dairy and whey? Officially, that number is only about 1-3%. However, when you redefine that number to include anyone who generates extra mucous from eating dairy, suffers from constipation from eating dairy, or feels bloated after eating dairy, you're probably looking at numbers closer to 60-70%. And if you actually expand the number to include anyone who suffers from mild systemic inflammation after eating dairy -- and thus retention of water -- some believe that number approaches 100%. There are no official studies to support these numbers; they are just the numbers that some people have seen who work with athletes, martial artists, and even bodybuilders.

And finally, whey contributes to two conditions, aminoacidemia and intestinal toxemia. Check out our page on "protein concerns" for more information.

As a side note, the entire whey industry results from a desire to extract commercial value from what was once a waste product of the cheese industry. When you curdle milk to make cheese, it splits the milk into two components, curds and whey. The curd is the "solid" part that's used to make cheese. The liquid whey used to be considered a waste product, but then manufacturers began to heat the whey to evaporate the water and concentrate the protein in it. Now, there are more advanced filtration techniques available to concentrate the protein down and leave it in forms, such as whey isolate, that are more readily used by the body. But it still has many of the same problems.

Egg Protein

At one time, before sophisticated whey processing emerged, eggs were considered the optimum protein supplement. In fact, the whole biological value scale is based on egg protein ranking a benchmark 100. However, eggs are arguably the most allergenic of all proteins. Oh, and for those of you who eat only egg whites, it should be noted that the allergenic proteins are concentrated in the egg whites.

And finally, because of their high sulfur content, eggs make for intestinal gas. Though this is not necessarily a major problem if you're a single bodybuilder with no plans to ever marry or meet anyone socially.

Egg Whites Versus Whole Eggs

Okay, while we're on the subject, let's talk about the myths associated with eggs.

First of all, contrary to popular belief, because whole eggs have a better amino acid profile than egg whites, the protein is more bioavailable in whole eggs than in egg whites. Whole eggs are also much more nutrient dense than egg whites since egg yolks contain all of the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and Omega-3 fatty acids (if you're eating free range chicken eggs). In fact, other than protein, egg whites are pretty much nutrient dead. And as for cholesterol concerns, recent studies do not support them.

But, all that said, the protein in eggs is still highly allergic.

Soy Protein

Soy protein is not an effective alternative. It is high in allergens (some 28 different proteins present in soy have been found to bind to IgE antibodies). It's also worth noting that the more soy protein you eat, the more likely you are to develop allergies to it -- and the more severe those allergies are likely to become. Soy also blocks the absorption of important minerals such as calcium unless the phytates have been removed, and soy contains high levels of phytoestrogens, which although beneficial in moderate amounts, can be counter-productive in large amounts -- particularly for children.

In addition, although its biological value is not bad at 70-80, it's net protein utilization at 61 is quite low. In fact, unless it has been fermented, soy protein contains potent enzyme inhibitors that block the action of trypsin and other enzymes needed for protein digestion. This can create significant amounts of gas, in addition to promoting pathological conditions of the pancreas, including cancer. As a side note, soy protein was once considered a waste product of the soy oil industry and used almost exclusively as cattle feed.

Chlorella Protein

Although it looks similar, chlorella is an entirely separate plant from spirulina and blue green algae. In fact, it belongs to an entirely different kingdom and phylum.

Hemp Seed Protein

Hemp seed protein has some unique features. First, 65% of the total protein content of hemp seed comes from the globular protein edestin, which is easily digested, absorbed, and utilized by the human body. As a side note, it closely resembles the globulin found in human blood plasma, which is vital to maintaining a healthy immune system. As such, edestin has the unique ability to stimulate the manufacture of antibodies against foreign invaders. It is also hypoallergenic.

As a complete food, hemp seed is great, one of the super foods, but as a protein supplement, less so. As straight ground hemp seed, it is only about 30% protein. Even in concentrated form it will only push to around 50% protein. Also, although the proteins in hemp (edestin and albumin) are great immune builders, they are less effective as muscle builders.

Buckwheat, millet, beans, etc.

Yes, a number of grains and beans are technically complete proteins and can serve as a foundational protein for vegetarian diets. However, they tend to be unbalanced in their amino acid ratios. This means that you have to eat them in proper combinations -- and you have to eat more of them than of animal proteins to obtain an equivalent value.

They are great for what they are (foundational foods), but they are not adequate for use as a "protein supplement" as required by athletes, people looking to lose weight, senior citizens, or people looking to recover from a prolonged illness. To build muscle mass, you need a more concentrated source of protein and a better mix of branch chain amino acids.

Cyanobacteria protein: spirulina and blue green algae

Spirulina is one of the great super foods. It is approximately 65 to 71 percent complete protein in its natural state. This is higher than virtually any other unprocessed food. (Note: whey protein, for example, has to be extracted and concentrated from dairy to reach higher levels.) And unlike most other forms of protein, the protein in spirulina is 85-95% digestible; again, one of the highest levels available. And finally, since spirulina has no cellulose in its cell walls, it is extremely easy for the body to break it down. In fact, its amino acids are delivered to the body for almost instant absorption.

So what's wrong with it?

First, it's not inexpensive. Klamath Lake blue green algae (a close cousin of spirulina -- they're both cyanobacteria) runs $40-80 a lb. Generic spirulina runs $15-40 a lb.

But $15 a lb would not be too much to pay for a high quality protein source, except for the taste -- somewhere between seaweed and grass. In small amounts, 1-4 grams a day in capsule form, it's easy enough to take. But if you're an athlete or bodybuilder or someone looking to recover from injury or illness and looking for 70-200 mg a day of protein, eating that much seaweed and grass could be tough for most people to manage.

And finally, about 30% of the worlds' population can't handle spirulina -- being either allergic to it, or suffering from toxins present in the spirulina that may have been absorbed from the water in which the spirulina is grown. (This is particularly a problem with algae grown in public bodies of water such as Klamath Lake, which are boating lakes.)
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:02 AM   #54
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

And for Good measure
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Rice And Yellow Pea Protein

A combination of rice and yellow pea protein might sound unappetizing to some. And, in fact, straight rice protein tends to be chalky in texture and unpleasantly blah in taste. But if done right, the combination of rice and pea protein actually provides one of the best tasting protein concentrates available. With that in mind…

Rice Protein

Standard cooked rice has a protein content of only 5%-7%. To make concentrated rice protein, whole brown rice is ground into flour, then mixed with water. Natural enzymes are then added sequentially to break down and separate out the carbohydrates and fibers from the protein portion of the slurry. Since the process is enzyme based, temperature must be kept low to preserve the enzyme activity levels. Low temperature and chemical free processing prevent the denaturing of amino acids, as is frequently seen in soy and dairy processing. The end product is 80-90% pure, hypoallergenic, easily digested protein. After four hours, the body digests over 86% of all ingested rice protein, compared with about 57% for soy. In the end, rice protein has a biological value of between 70-80, a net protein utilization of about 76, and a total absorption ration of some 98%.

Note: rice protein is high in the amino acids cysteine and methionine, but tends to be low in lysine, which negatively impacts its bioavailability. If you can raise its lysine levels, you can dramatically increase its bioavailability.

Pea Protein

When it comes to perception, more people have a problem with the "idea" of pea protein than with rice protein. But in fact, pea protein has a very mild, pleasantly sweet taste. It's one of the better tasting proteins. Pea protein is the concentrated natural protein fraction of yellow peas. The process used for concentrating pea protein is water based, making the end product very "natural."

The Beneficial Combination of Rice and Pea Proteins

As mentioned above, rice protein is high in cysteine and methionine, but tends to be low in lysine. Yellow pea protein, on the other hand, tends to be low in the sulfur containing amino acids, cysteine and methionine -- but high in lysine. The bottom line is that when used in combination, rice protein and yellow pea protein offer a Protein Efficiency Ratio that begins to rival dairy and egg -- but without their potential to promote allergic reactions. In addition, the texture of pea protein helps smooth out the "chalkiness" of rice protein. Like rice protein, it is hypoallergenic and easily digested.

On a different note, the rice/pea combo also has a nice branch chain amino acid profile -- only slightly less than whey
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:05 AM   #55
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOW1EDGE
I love the "organic" psychos who light up a cigarette after criticizing my piece of pizza.
Guilty, smoking organic cigarettes.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:06 AM   #56
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

For a protein shake I blend up raw bison liver, raw bison thyroid, raw bison testies, raw fermented cod liver oil, some raw eggs, raw coconut cream, raw kiefer, raw honey, and a little bit of kombucha. Screw a protein powder supplement.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:06 AM   #57
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

No one's reading any of that bro.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:09 AM   #58
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcaliblunt
For a protein shake I blend up raw bison liver, raw bison thyroid, raw bison testies, raw fermented cod liver oil, some raw eggs, raw coconut cream, raw kiefer, raw honey, and a little bit of kombucha. Screw a protein powder supplement.


You eat gross sh!t bro. No surprise you're from the "Emerald Triangle."
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:00 AM   #59
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
You eat gross sh!t bro. No surprise you're from the "Emerald Triangle."

I'm real deal paleo, not that weak ass eating cooked meat BS. I eat raw meat with my bare hands like a real man. All you processed carb addicted fools who eat nothing but filler and can't stop eating toast are beyatches. The stuff I eat is bloody and all natural as hell, if wimps can't step their game up and wanna hate then fukk'um.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #60
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Default Re: Do those "all natural" folk really bug you?

My Family usually tries to buy all our meat, vegetables and fruit from local farmers and for stuff we can't get from locals like bananas we go for fair trade stuff. I think this is a contribution to the local economy everyone, as long as money isn't a problem, should make.
I also switched to smoking organic cigarettes.

Last edited by blablabla : 09-12-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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