I have more respect for a mugger than for a privileged rich man

[InfiniteBaskets]

[QUOTE=K

[D-Rose]

keep buying $10 starbucks coffee, the newest smartphones, plasma tvs, whatever, and roll it with your credit card and move into a mountain of debt and never have savings or anything for retirement.

whose fault is that? you, the dumb ass consumer who sees stuff from superbowl ads or american idol commercials and then go out and buy. your ass is living paycheck to paycheck, with nothing in your ira or 401, yet you continue to buy shit that makes no sense.

of course, you never point the finger at yourself but only care to blame the banks who gave you all this credit to *** yourselves over with. yeah, the banks don't give a *** about you, but most of you did all this to yourself too.

Exactly man. This is a country you want to be in if you're poor. You can go to school and get any damn degree you want and responsibly pay off the loans and have a great career. Instead people are content with high school degrees and flipping burgers. Get yourself together. I hate all the resentment towards most "rich" people. A lot of these people make their money by working their asses off and spending wisely. Screw you if you can't get an education or work hard.

[K]

sigh, So sad that some people actually respect criminals.

If you use violence to steal stuff you are scum imo. Most often you are just robbing some immigrants small business. Way to be thug, robbing defenseless people just trying to get by.

Straw man alert.

There are a huge variety of rich people. Many of them got rich by being extremely intelligent, Eg. Bill Gates, Larry Paige, Sergey Brin, Elon Musk, etc.

Most of the rich get as rich as they are through privilege. IP monopoly privilege. Landowning privilege. Debt money privilege. Or even spectrum allocations (Carlos Slim Helu). They get money far out of proportion with what their productive contributions to the economy (if they make any at all) are worth.

Even the Banksters as they are called were at least smart enough that they didnt need to resort to being a thug.

They do far more damage than thugs.

[K]

If you dont want rent dont, buy your own property. I have never forced any of my tenants to rent from me.

"If you don't want to pay your protection money, move somewhere else and pay another protection racketeer or start your own protection racket. I'm not forcing you to do business here."

That's what your "logic" sounds like.

[K]

You realize real estate taxes already exist right?

They only tap a small portion of what society gives the landowner, and they also partially fall onto improvements (which I don't want).

[Raymone]

Why should humans be allowed to own anything? All of our possessions should be divvied up and shared amongst the community, man! Land, houses, vehicles, clothing, savings. Everything!

Private ownership is evil. Let's make a concerted effort to move towards the commie, hippy, shared bullshit.

[K]

Its an extremely flawed comparison because people dont have to rent. They can take it upon themselves to save up their money and buy a place of their own.

"You don't have to stay on this island, you can always get back in the water and swim back to wherever you came from."

Anyways, it's not that simple. While you're trying to save up money to satisfy a landowners upfront extortion fee in order to buy a place of your own, land values appreciate right along with the economy and your productive contributions to the economy are being taxed and are then also being given to landowners. Most people will never, ever escape this vicious cycle. It's by design. It's a massive scam.

Owning land doesnt violate rights.

It violates the rights of everyone who's now deprived of the opportunities available at that location unless they pay extortion money to the landowner for doing nothing.

Last november i bought a rental property and am renting it out for extra income. I had to borrow money, from a bank and some from my parents and basically use the vast majority of my savings in order to make it happen. How is it fair in your opinion that tenants do not have to pay rent? How am i robbing them? I have never forced anyone to be my tenant.

Here is the story of the bandit/landowner (I didn't write it):

"THE BANDIT

Suppose there is a bandit who lurks in the mountain pass between two countries. He robs the merchant caravans as they pass through, but is careful to take only as much as the merchants can afford to lose, so that they will keep using the pass and he will keep getting the loot.

A thief, right?

Now, suppose he has a license to charge tolls of those who use the pass, a license issued by the government of one of the countries -- or even both of them. The tolls are by coincidence equal to what he formerly took by force. How has the nature of his enterprise changed, simply through being made legal? He is still just a thief. He is still just demanding payment and not contributing anything in return. How can the mere existence of that piece of paper entitling him to rob the caravans alter the fact that what he is doing is in fact robbing them?

But now suppose instead of a license to steal, he has a land title to the pass. He now charges the caravans the exact same amount in "rent" for using the pass, and has become quite a respectable gentleman. But how has the nature of his business really changed? It's all legal now, but he is still just taking money from those who use what nature provided for free, and contributing nothing whatever in return, just as he did when he was a lowly bandit. How is he any different now that he is a landowner?

Is any other landowner charging rent for what nature provided for free any different?

Do the merchants, by using the pass when they know the bandit is there, agree to be robbed?

If there were two, or three, or 300 passes, each with its own bandit, would the merchants' being at liberty to choose which bandit robs them make the bandits' enterprise a competitive industry in a free market?"

I hope that made it clear enough that you are robbing them.

[K]

Exactly man. This is a country you want to be in if you're poor. You can go to school and get any damn degree you want and responsibly pay off the loans and have a great career. Instead people are content with high school degrees and flipping burgers. Get yourself together. I hate all the resentment towards most "rich" people. A lot of these people make their money by working their asses off and spending wisely. Screw you if you can't get an education or work hard.

There is a lot of people who work hard but don't deserve the money they get. A bank robber works hard. Does that mean he deserves the money he gets? If not, then why not? Let's see that logic of yours.

[COLOR="White"]Prediction: You will cite legality.[/COLOR]

[travelingman]

Why should humans be allowed to own anything? All of our possessions should be divvied up and shared amongst the community, man! Land, houses, vehicles, clothing, savings. Everything!

Private ownership is evil. Let's make a concerted effort to move towards the commie, hippy, shared bullshit.

Communism is too perfect of a system for humans.

[K]

Why should humans be allowed to own anything?

Because people have a natural right to own the fruits of their labor.

All of our possessions should be divvied up and shared amongst the community, man! Land, houses, vehicles, clothing, savings. Everything!

Straw man.

Private ownership is evil.

Private ownership is evil if what you own is a privilege which violates other people's rights, land titles being the best example. It's interesting that apologists support property rights in such legal privilege more than they support the actual and genuine property rights (in the moral sense) and liberty of people such legal privilege violates.

Let's make a concerted effort to move towards the commie, hippy, shared bullshit.

Straw man.

[Jailblazers7]

Wait, are you the guy who advocates a 100% land value tax or are you advocating the end of land ownership completely?

[K]

Wait, are you the guy who advocates a 100% land value tax or are you advocating the end of land ownership completely?

Land value tax. Private and exclusive land tenure is a necessity. Maybe make it leasehold similar to Hong Kong. But ultimately the really important part is that the holders of such privilege pay the land value tax to compensate society for what they are being given.

[Hazard]

Communism is too perfect of a system for humans.

Communism will never work.

First off the population is too large. The basis of communism/Marxism is to view all people as brothers and sisters, this will never be possible with this size of the population and the racial/economic/nationalistic tension that exists.

Second there is no drive to work, everyone makes the same and there is no reason to put in any extra effort. You can be a farmer and drink all day and not do shit and still get paid, and why not? No one will know anything cause everyones doing it. So now we got empty shelves at the supermarket and no one has food, so they rob each other.

Also this is system transitioning from another system. In most cases the current system in place is not equal, and people do earn more than others. How do you convince them to share the wealth? You don't, you take it from them by force.

In short, Communism is bullshit.

[TheMarkMadsen]

[QUOTE=K

[K]

Communism will never work.

First off the population is too large. The basis of communism/Marxism is to view all people as brothers and sisters, this will never be possible with this size of the population and the racial/economic/nationalistic tension that exists.

Second there is no drive to work, everyone makes the same and there is no reason to put in any extra effort. You can be a farmer and drink all day and not do shit and still get paid, and why not? No one will know anything cause everyones doing it. So now we got empty shelves at the supermarket and no one has food, so they rob each other.

Also this is system transitioning from another system. In most cases the current system in place is not equal, and people do earn more than others. How do you convince them to share the wealth? You don't, you take it from them by force.

In short, Communism is bullshit.

I don't see any communists in this thread so I'm not sure who or what exactly the two of you are addressing.