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  1. #46
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59
    Yeah, lucky thing the survey was a statewide endeavor and not the 'people P.Tiddy knows' survey. The numbers might've been a bit skewed that way



    Those 'idiots' (your term not mine) think that cavemen and dinosaurs existed because they think that the Earth is only 6-10,000 years old and that the dinosaurs died during Noah's ark expedition because they believe the nonsense in Genesis.

    Again, you asked for the proof, I provided it to you. It's done. Just admit you were wrong and move on. Plenty of other subjects you can ignorantly argue about.
    A lof of christians (not the really creationists) don't believe in evolution because they are ignorant about it. They have this absurd idea that evolution claims we actually came from monkeys.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Christianity was not created 300 years after Christ. You have absolutely no knowledge whatsover of history. The fist gospels were written decades after Jesus death. And he had followers since his death. Nero persecuted christians in 64 ad, but somehow Christianity only began to exist 200 years later?
    300 years after Christ the persecution of Christians stopped in Rome because of the Edict of Milan.

    Every christian scholar and anyone christian who serious study knows that Jesus wasn't born in December 25th.

    Will you pull Zeitgeist and Religulous bs (denied by all historians) next about how Jesus was a copy of Horus?
    Ok, so why is his 'birthday' celebrated on that specific day and not say August 7th? December 25th in 'pagan' religious history is very significant. How did the venerable day of the sun end up being Jesus' birthday on the Roman calendar?

    A lof of christians (not the really creationists) don't believe in evolution because they are ignorant about it. They have this absurd idea that evolution claims we actually came from monkeys.
    You won't hear any arguments from me on this point.

  3. #48
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59
    Ok, so why is his 'birthday' celebrated on that specific day and not say August 7th? December 25th in 'pagan' religious history is very significant. How did the venerable day of the sun end up being Jesus' birthday on the Roman calendar?
    Because it was already part of pagan traditions.
    The church set the date there so that it kind of overcome the pagan sentiment. It was an strategic move. It was done like it the 4th century. The bible does not say anything about it.

  4. #49
    NBA All-star Rasheed1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Since you were a catholic, does the church take Genesis literally? If they don't, you were lying (our just ignorant) when you said catholics take the whole bible literally.
    I hear catholics try to disassociate with most of the old testament from time to time... They like to pick and choose what to take literal and what not to take literal...Its still apart of their bible which is supposedly God's word... But I havent heard anything official..

    Did the Pope deliver some edict?

    The Church is against abortion. There's a great philosophical debate if abortion is morally right or not. And why is that? Because science itself can't tell when life really begins. There are atheists against abortion as well. Even atheists groups on the matter.

    The church is against abortion.... But most catholics support some form of abortion..

    My point isnt whether or not abortion is right... My point is that alot of religious people believe whatever they want and still call themselves real...

  5. #50
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59

    You won't hear any arguments from me on this point.
    We agree on something.

  6. #51
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Christianity was not created 300 years after Christ. You have absolutely no knowledge whatsover of history. The fist gospels were written decades after Jesus death. And he had followers since his death. Nero persecuted christians in 64 ad, but somehow Christianity only began to exist 200 years later?
    300 years after Christ the persecution of Christians stopped in Rome because of the Edict of Milan.

    Every christian scholar and anyone christian who serious study knows that Jesus wasn't born in December 25th.

    Will you pull Zeitgeist and Religulous bs (denied by all historians) next about how Jesus was a copy of Horus?
    The first christians were zealot jews.

    The christianity that you follow is completely different from what the early christians before the council of nicosia were doing.

    Learn the history of your religion

  7. #52
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasheed1
    I hear catholics try to disassociate with most of the old testament from time to time... They like to pick and choose what to literal and what not to take literal...Its still apart of their bible which is supposedly God's word... But I havent heard anything official..

    Did the Pope deliver some edict?




    The church is against abortion.... But most catholics support some form of abortion..

    My point isnt whether or not abortion is right... My is that alot of religious people believe whatever they want and still call themselves real...
    I don't know everything about the old testament acceptance. But I know the catholic dogma tells that only some codes (the moral ones, but not the judicial and ceremmonial - like stonning a woman who cheat on her husband to death) of the old testament applies to catholics.

    Early church fathers like Augustine, 1500 years ago already defended an allegorical interpretation of Genesis. He basically straight up told not to use the Bible to explain explain science (natural events):



    It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.

    — De Genesi ad literam 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [408]

    With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation.

    — De Genesi ad literam, 2:9


    BTW, this is Pope Benedict speaking:

    "According to the widely accepted scientific account, the universe erupted 15 billion years ago in an explosion called the 'Big Bang' and has been expanding and cooling ever since. Later there gradually emerged the conditions necessary for the formation of atoms, still later the condensation of galaxies and stars, and about 10 billion years later the formation of planets. In our own solar system and on earth (formed about 4.5 billion years ago), the conditions have been favorable to the emergence of life. While there is little consensus among scientists about how the origin of this first microscopic life is to be explained, there is general agreement among them that the first organism dwelt on this planet about 3.5–4 billion years ago. Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution"




    I don't know if most american catholics support abortion (i'm not american). But I know that some do. And I don't think think they aren't catholics because of that.
    Last edited by lakers_forever; 12-05-2012 at 09:35 PM.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59
    Good guess, but no.



    More Demographic Breakdown


    This is why the U.S. is so low in math/science rankings worldwide and the problem will only get worse unless people stand up against willful ignorance
    This is not why. People don't want to do math/science because they actually have to work hard. Or they just suck at it.

    Went to school with tons of christians who went to small town schools in Texas that graduated with an engineering degree.

    All comes down to work ethic in my opinion...which may be an issue in the US.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Christianity was not created 300 years after Christ. You have absolutely no knowledge whatsover of history. The fist gospels were written decades after Jesus death. And he had followers since his death. Nero persecuted christians in 64 ad, but somehow Christianity only began to exist 200 years later?
    300 years after Christ the persecution of Christians stopped in Rome because of the Edict of Milan.

    Every christian scholar and anyone christian who serious study knows that Jesus wasn't born in December 25th.

    Will you pull Zeitgeist and Religulous bs (denied by all historians) next about how Jesus was a copy of Horus?
    the roman manufactured jesus that you follow is an amalgram of Krishna, Cuchulaihn, Horus, Apollo and Baldr.

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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Because it was already part of pagan traditions.
    The church set the date there so that it kind of overcome the pagan sentiment. It was an strategic move. It was done like it the 4th century. The bible does not say anything about it.
    Yes, exactly. So you admit that it was a way for officials to strategically fuse Christian and pagan religious beliefs... so why do you think it's so far-fetched to think that they did the same with other pagan conventions in relation to Jesus?

  11. #56
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Young
    The first christians were zealot jews.

    The christianity that you follow is completely different from what the early christians before the council of nicosia were doing.

    Learn the history of your religion
    WTF is the Council of Nicosia? That never even existed.

    You must be talking about the talking of Nicea. And no book of the bible was changed there like you previously claimed. They discussed the nature of Jesus and rejected Arianism (who believed that the jesus was the Son of God, but did not exist before being begotten of God in the beginning).

  12. #57
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Young
    the roman manufactured jesus that you follow is an amalgram of Krishna, Cuchulaihn, Horus, Apollo and Baldr.
    See. Zeitgeist crap debunked by any serious historian.

    Read it. Written by skeptics. http://conspiracies.skepticproject.c...eist/part-one/

    Quote Originally Posted by DonDadda59
    Yes, exactly. So you admit that it was a way for officials to strategically fuse Christian and pagan religious beliefs... so why do you think it's so far-fetched to think that they did the same with other pagan conventions in relation to Jesus?
    Maybe. But Jesus life (born of a virgin mother, being crucified, dying for our sins and ressurecting after 3 days) and teachings were not copied from any pagan myth. Don't believe Zeitgeist and Religulous pseudohistory.


    http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html
    Last edited by lakers_forever; 12-05-2012 at 09:33 PM.

  13. #58
    NBA All-star Rasheed1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    [QUOTE=lakers_forever]I don't know everything about the old testament acceptance. But I know the catholic dogma tells that only some codes (the moral ones, but not the judicial and ceremmonial - like stonning a woman who cheat on her husband to death) of the old testament applies to catholics.

    Early church fathers like Augustine, 1500 years ago already defended an allegorical interpretation of Genesis. He basically straight up told not to use the Bible to explain explain science (natural events):



    It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.


  14. #59
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasheed1
    I remember in Catholic school, I received a very good foundation in Math and science. The Religious teachings (in class) was more in line with those passages you posted.... They priest let you grow out of whatever former beliefs you had, so long and you understood scripture and doctrine.

    But that is very different from the culture of Catholic Church. The culture of the church itself and the parishioners is much more traditional. These practices were sacred, and literal.. You were really drinking jesus blood when you took communion... it wasnt just symbolism.. God was really inside the tabernacle.. It was a just a symbol... The culture was different in that way.

    I know a few catholics who take all of that very seriously and they frown at people who don't..

    that was some good info you posted tho.. Reminded me of Bonner

    The thing even one parish is different from the other. You might even have a catholic priest who denies evolution out of pure ignorance. That might happen. There are even atheists who denies evolution out of ignorance*. The pratices are sacred and literal indeed. But that does not mean the church takes the whole bible literally in anyway.

    Thanks.


    *http://www.examiner.com/article/athe...ution-new-book

  15. #60
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Top 10 Claims Made by Creationists to Counter Scientific Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    P.Diddy, don't waist your time. Rasheed is one of those atheist bigots who claim only fundamentalists are real christians. They do that because they actually disprove creationists claims with science. And they want to creat this false dicotomy that you can't be a christian and believe in Evolution at the same time when Darwin himself said: " "It seems to me absurd to doubt that a man may be an ardent theist & an evolutionist."
    And since you said you did not say this, I apologize. I misunderstood it.

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