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Old 04-23-2014, 12:49 PM   #31
97 bulls
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by Derka
Then, like I said, he's gotta earn it.

I really hope the day comes when he pops out and he's like "All these organized religions claiming to speak for me have it all wrong. Just be excellent to each other and we're square."
Funny thing is that all you have to do is read the bible. Im sure you posess enough intellect to have an understanding of what God requires of you. I personally tend to stay away from organized religion because it is so distorted. And their leaders tend to be about themselves as opposed to God.

Saying that, what else does God need to do to earn your love? I don't know your situation, but I assume you have the basic necessities of life and decent health I hope. How else can God "earn" your love?
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

well, there are proofs:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/on...cal-arguments/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/te...cal-arguments/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/co...ical-argument/


but if you mean there being some sort of further empirical evidence of a being who had properties similar to what god might, and such a being issued commands which were inconsistent with some persons moral thinking/intuition, one would imagine such persons might reject this being as god, or would reject such prescriptions as having moral force.

you want this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

if a being punished infractions with sufficient speed and force, one would imagine behavior modification, coupled with a cultural realignment of moral thinking.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
If God has to force you to love him, then it's not true love. You choose to love him. It's the beauty of free will. All intelligent beings have it.
What is your evidence for the existence of free will? You don't have any. Free will is just an idea. It's not actually something real. There is no evidence for free will just like there is no evidence for God. Both are silly ideas.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 16X
What is your evidence for the existence of free will? You don't have any. Free will is just an idea. It's not actually something real. There is no evidence for free will just like there is no evidence for God. Both are silly ideas.
You have a choice in everything you do. You use reason. That's my evidence. You're insulting yourself by not saying you have free will. What you are essentially doing is putting yourself on the level of a dumb animal that lives its life on instinct.

Can a Lion decide to no longer eat meat and feed off plants and berries? Basically be a vegetarian.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
You have a choice in everything you do. You use reason. That's my evidence. You're insulting yourself by not saying you have free will. What you are essentially doing is putting yourself on the level of a dumb animal that lives its life on instinct.

Can a Lion decide to no longer eat meat and feed off plants and berries? Basically be a vegetarian.
Just like lions, we can not break the chain of cause and effect. Free will is an illusion. You can not decide what you think. Thoughts just emerge from the brain. Think of a movie right now. Did you decide what movie you were going to think of or did the the thought of a specific movie just emerge?

When we make a decision, what we decide has already been determined unconsciously before we consciously know what decision we're going to "choose".

I'm insulting myself? I don't think refusing to accept blind assertions is insulting myself.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 16X
Just like lions, we can not break the chain of cause and effect. Free will is an illusion. You can not decide what you think. Thoughts just emerge from the brain. Think of a movie right now. Did you decide what movie you were going to think of or did the the thought of a specific movie just emerge?

When we make a decision, what we decide has already been determined unconsciously before we consciously know what decision we're going to "choose".

I'm insulting myself? I don't think refusing to accept blind assertions is insulting myself.
Lol what? I think you're taking this wayyyyyyyy out there bro. Free will is you being able to make a decision on what you wanna do. You can change your mind. Granted, some of our actions are instinctive. But not all.

If we dont have free will, how can penalize a person for committing a crime? According to you, they had no choice in the matter.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

To answer KBlazes question:

I believe that if God stepped out of it, Heaven's forces would probably win. This is because many nations would have to work together and lettuce be reality, can you see the US and China willing to share info with each other? Meanwhile, Heaven probably has a more unified military. Also, there would be some religious fanatics that would help God's troops and fight against us.

The Allied Forces of Humanity have one chance though. Lucifer was tempted so it's possible that we can strike a deal with the Devil. He does some espionage work to try and convert Angels to our cause while using guerrilla tactics against Heaven. Then, we promise Lucifer Heaven's territory if we win. Once we secure Heaven, an angel can manipulate all the fanatics to our cause. If everyone is against God, then he would surrender because without the support of humanity, he is just a lonely all-powerful being.


tldr: God's troops would most likely win but if executed properly, humanity can take that ni99a out
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Lol what? I think you're taking this wayyyyyyyy out there bro. Free will is you being able to make a decision on what you wanna do. You can change your mind. Granted, some of our actions are instinctive. But not all.

If we dont have free will, how can penalize a person for committing a crime? According to you, they had no choice in the matter.
But whatever decisions you make, they are determined unconsciously in your mind before you're aware of the decision you're going to make, so I don't see how you can call the choice "free" when it's made unconsciously. You can't break the chain of cause and effect, so that means things can only go one way. This is determinism. A murderer could not have done any differently than what they did. Their biology, environment, and influences in life made it so they did not have a choice but to become a murderer.

How can we penalize people if there is no free will? Well, even if a murderer didn't choose to murder and couldn't have done otherwise, they still need to be kept away from society to keep society safe from them.

I understand why you may think this sounds way out there and scary. I thought the same at first, but this is simply the reality that we live in.

Last edited by 16X : 04-23-2014 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

God is a human concept, it only exists in your own mind. That alone should make it obvious how real he is. Apply the same belief to other living beings. You can answer your questions with questions.

Does God exist for animals? Is there good and evil in nature when animals kill each other for survival? Is there truly "morality" in a world that's shaped by incidents beyond your control? A baby is born "innocent", like blank paper that's over time shaped by events around him. There is no right or wrong, only actions and reactions. You can't be judged when there are no actual rules.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:32 PM   #40
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

I would tell him to go **** himself.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:40 PM   #41
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Lol what? I think you're taking this wayyyyyyyy out there bro. Free will is you being able to make a decision on what you wanna do. You can change your mind. Granted, some of our actions are instinctive. But not all.

If we dont have free will, how can penalize a person for committing a crime? According to you, they had no choice in the matter.
Because they are a danger to the rest of society. A psychopathic child murderer is what he is, but he has in no way chosen to be that. But i think most people would still prefer he be locked away somewhere unpleasant. Also, it may not be his choice (it isn't) but it is who he is, it is the essence of his being: if he were not a child murderer/psychopath then he would be a completely different person, not just the same person making a different choice. A man cannot change his nature unless it is in his nature to do so. In this way people are either wholly accountable for what they do, or not accountable at all (i lean towards the former, which is basically the existentialists doctrine).
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

Which god? Thor? Odin? Jesus? Buddha?
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

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Originally Posted by Budadiiii
If god is proven to exist what would happen?

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Old 04-23-2014, 08:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dresta
Because they are a danger to the rest of society. A psychopathic child murderer is what he is, but he has in no way chosen to be that. But i think most people would still prefer he be locked away somewhere unpleasant. Also, it may not be his choice (it isn't) but it is who he is, it is the essence of his being: if he were not a child murderer/psychopath then he would be a completely different person, not just the same person making a different choice. A man cannot change his nature unless it is in his nature to do so. In this way people are either wholly accountable for what they do, or not accountable at all (i lean towards the former, which is basically the existentialists doctrine).
Wow. So there's nothing wrong with murderers, child molesters, burglers, etc. Then why not cage other animals for acts of violence?
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: If God was proven to exist... what would happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16X
But whatever decisions you make, they are determined unconsciously in your mind before you're aware of the decision you're going to make, so I don't see how you can call the choice "free" when it's made unconsciously. You can't break the chain of cause and effect, so that means things can only go one way. This is determinism. A murderer could not have done any differently than what they did. Their biology, environment, and influences in life made it so they did not have a choice but to become a murderer.

How can we penalize people if there is no free will? Well, even if a murderer didn't choose to murder and couldn't have done otherwise, they still need to be kept away from society to keep society safe from them.

I understand why you may think this sounds way out there and scary. I thought the same at first, but this is simply the reality that we live in.
The free will comes when you ACT OUT your thoughts. You choose to do what you want to do.
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