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Old 10-21-2010, 03:24 PM   #31
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

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Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
To be fair, when you're running full speed and the guy you want to bring down is running full speed it's not easy to make sure the approved body parts collide all the time. When I played in HS I honestly never wanted to KO or injure anyone, but there were a few times that guys got hit with my helmet first anyway...of course, I was never ordered not to lead with my helmet, but I'm just saying that it's not so simple. Make a hundred tackles in a season and some of them might be considered "dirty." The NFL should give guys some leeway. If the same player is is delivering illegal hits and concussions every week then go after him but we are going to see fines and suspensions levied on guys that were just trying to make an honest play and got caught in an unlucky position.


add to that the offensive players (mostly RBs) lower their heads from time to time and that makes the target even smaller and makes helmet to helmet contact even more likely... I give them that...

but the fact still remains that these guys should see what they are hitting and they should be wrapping up.... not leading with their heads like launching missiles trying knock guys out...

All this whining from defensive players is pathetic...
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
To be fair, when you're running full speed and the guy you want to bring down is running full speed it's not easy to make sure the approved body parts collide all the time. When I played in HS I honestly never wanted to KO or injure anyone, but there were a few times that guys got hit with my helmet first anyway...of course, I was never ordered not to lead with my helmet, but I'm just saying that it's not so simple. Make a hundred tackles in a season and some of them might be considered "dirty." The NFL should give guys some leeway. If the same player is is delivering illegal hits and concussions every week then go after him but we are going to see fines and suspensions levied on guys that were just trying to make an honest play and got caught in an unlucky position.

Yeah I agree with a lot of what Mark Schlareth has been saying about the game speed an what not on ESPN. You can tell he hates Goodell but its nice to see a guy take a firm, passionate stand on the issue.

I lold when Golic said he goes to bed dreaming of hits like the one Dunta Robinson laid on Desean.

Last edited by Jailblazers7 : 10-21-2010 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Merril Hoge had a piece on ESPN the other day about all of this and how he's for cracking down on the dirty hits. Spoke about how that "torpedo" hit isn't what is taught when you're little and how it's gotten so far away from the fundamentals and basics.

I'm tired of hearing "I don't wanna have to think out there" by defensive players. If you build into your brain the right way to wrap and tackle a guy then there's no thinking involved. You weren't taught to launch yourself at players' heads. Stop crying and play football the way you were taught, not the way you wanna play it so you can look like a badass and injure guys in the process.

Those bang-bang plays happen, it's part of the game. But the Dunta Robinson hit for example...he had all that time from the split second it left Kolb's hands until it got to Jackson to realize where he should hit him. It's not suspendable, but if fines are what the NFL has to do to get it through their heads to stop doing it then that's fine. And if it becomes a common occurrence then yes it's suspendable.

Now that Brandon Meriweather bullshit...that's suspendable easily and he should be removed from the game he's in too.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Anyone that has played football on a high school or even middle school level will tell you (or they should tell you, if they were taught properly) that Harrison's style of tackling -- leading with the crown of your helmet -- goes against every basic fundamental technique that is taught from an early age.

It isn't just dangerous to the offensive player to tackle like that, but virtually all serious neck injuries have come from players with their heads down when impacted. It is just bad form, all the way around.

You are supposed to keep your head up, wrap the body or legs and drive back. Harrison literally does the opposite on both hits that knocked Browns out of the game... He put his head down, didn't wrap and launched himself into the offensive player.

He and his agent are showing their knowledge of the game (or lack thereof) by constantly calling this a textbook tackle or a legal tackle. Either he is just saying that to try and garner sympathy or he really doesn't know what proper tackling fundamentals are... The latter would be more troubling.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

A couple of new articles on the subject... I'm not a big Rick Reilly fan, but he thoroughly crushed Harrison in his column.

Quote:
Good, James Harrison. Please do retire. Make good on your threats and go drive a truck like your father did. And if you have as many head-ons in that job as you do in this one, heaven help you.

Harrison, the Pittsburgh Steelers hired headhunter, is talking about quitting after being fined $75,000 for using his helmet to knock not just one Cleveland Brown out of the game, but two, then issued words that were even uglier than his deeds:

"I don't want to see anyone injured," Harrison said, "but I'm not opposed to hurting anyone."

I'm sorry?

"There's a difference. When you're injured, you can't play. But when you're hurt, you can shake it off and come back, maybe a few plays later or the next game. I try to hurt people."

Harrison does more than try. He purposely lowered his head into two Browns wide receivers -- Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi -- sending them off to the "How many fingers am I holding up?" guy. Both men went for tests Monday, and it was uncertain whether either will play anytime soon.

No problem, says Dr. Feelbad.

"A hit like that geeks you up," Harrison said. "It geeks everybody up -- especially when you find out that the guy is not really hurt -- he's just sleeping. He's knocked out, but he's going to be OK."

It didn't geek Patti Drake up. She was a kind of surrogate mom for Cribbs at Kent State, where he was, believe it or not, a teammate of Harrison's.

"It sickened me," she says.

You know what would geek me up? Harrison out of the game. Because as much as I abhor the way he plays, I don't want the day to come, 10 years from now, when he starts suffering depression and slurred speech and all the other goodies that come with these massive crashes. Because no amount of sleeping is going to make everything OK then.

God knows how Harrison would've reacted if the NFL had done what it should've, which is to bench him for two games, one for each player he appeared to try to decapitate. If we can have a rule that a player who suffers a concussion can't go in for the rest of the game, why can't we have the same rule for players who hand them out?

The second to be suspended should be the refs in that Steelers-Browns game. Neither of Harrison's hits was flagged, even though both were purposely helmet-to-helmet and the second one, the assault on Massaquoi, was the blatant lighting up of a defenseless player. If the refs had flagged the first, we might not have had to watch the second.

And what does all this say about us? The Romans used to pack the Colosseum to watch barbarism and cruelty, a spectacle that dehumanized the fans as well as the combatants. Are we starting to become those fans?

New England's Brandon Meriweather head-butted Baltimore Ravens tight end Todd Heap in a shot so cheap and disgusting that you wanted to switch over to baseball.

Atlanta cornerback Dunta Robinson human-missiled Philly wide receiver DeSean Jackson so hard that both men were left concussed and sprawled out on the field as if they'd been leveled by a daisy cutter.

By the way, if you're counting, that's five Eagles who've been concussed this season. Hey, who wants to make the season two games longer?

All in all, seven players left games Sunday with brain injuries. It was the kind of Sunday that makes you wonder what kind of person you are for sitting there watching.

Watching men turn other men's cerebellums into oatmeal is starting to bring up the bile. We now know what these collisions can mean later in life. We know because the NFL is telling us. We know because we heard about what the battered brains of Hall of Famer Mike Webster and Terry Long looked like. Oh, yeah, they were Steelers, too, weren't they?

Steelers coach Mike Tomlin defended Harrison, saying he's a "model" for young players to imitate. Oh, yeah, he's a peach. Fined $5,000 for slamming Vince Young into the ground. Fined $5,000 for unnecessary brutality against a Cincinnati Bengal. Had to go to anger management and undergo psychiatric counseling after being charged with assault on his girlfriend. Owned a pit bull that bit his son, the boy's mom and his masseuse. When's he running for Congress?

Helmet-to-helmet hits involve two helmets. But when somebody asked Harrison whether he was worried about the long-term effects on his own brain, he scoffed. "That's the risk you take," he said.

An answer that begs the question: What brain?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5706465
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Meanwhile, Browns' center Alex Mack is also having a go at Harrison...

Quote:
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns center Alex Mack says Steelers linebacker James Harrison led with his helmet on more than just the two plays that sidelined two of his Cleveland teammates with concussions.

Mack said Harrison, who was fined $75,000 for his hard hit on Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi and knocked out Josh Cribbs on a running play, speared running back Peyton Hillis when he was on the ground.

"The helmet-to-helmet with Cribbs is a little more innocent, to some extent," Mack said Thursday. "You're still leading with your head. It's a dumb move no matter what you do. If you watch the game film, [Harrison] was doing that to everyone on every play. People would be on the ground and he would try to spear them. There's a play on film where Peyton Hillis is tackled and he comes up and spears him. It's like you're being cheap, you're being dirty."

Mack said he is pleased with the media attention being given to the helmet-to-helmet hits and believes the league should do all it can to protect and educate players.

"A lot of the arguments right now are people are taught from Pee Wee football that this is how you play," Mack said. "Well, we need to change that. You can't be breaking your head. There are better ways to tackle. We're taught you're not supposed to spear with the top of your head."

Shortly before his hit on Massaquoi, Harrison blasted Cribbs, who ran the ball out of the wildcat formation. Neither Cribbs nor Massaquoi has practiced this week. Harrison returned to practice on Thursday, one after he threatened to retire because of the league's crackdown on dangerous hits.

Cleveland coach Eric Mangini said Cribbs and Massaquoi are making progress and he's hopeful they can be back at practice on Friday. Both players have been around the team this week at the Browns' facility.

Cribbs, who also returns punts and kickoffs, was struck on the left side of his head by Harrison on a running play in Sunday's game. Massaquoi got drilled by Harrison after dropping a pass over the middle -- a vicious hit that resulted in the fine. The NFL ruled that the hit on Cribbs was legal.

Mangini has been pleased with the progress of rookie wide receiver Carlton Mitchell, who could get his first playing time this week at New Orleans.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5710617
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

As a Bengals fan, it's in my blood to hate the Steelers, but at the very least, I could say that they were a respectable organization once upon a time.

That day is now over. Between Ben, and idiots like Jeff Reed and Harrison, it looks like the inmates are starting to run the asylum there. I do respect Troy and a handful of others there, I will say.

He's also a woman beater.

oh, and here's a real gem:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_398120.html

sounds like a real winner......
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Anyone that has played football on a high school or even middle school level will tell you (or they should tell you, if they were taught properly) that Harrison's style of tackling -- leading with the crown of your helmet -- goes against every basic fundamental technique that is taught from an early age.

It isn't just dangerous to the offensive player to tackle like that, but virtually all serious neck injuries have come from players with their heads down when impacted. It is just bad form, all the way around.

You are supposed to keep your head up, wrap the body or legs and drive back. Harrison literally does the opposite on both hits that knocked Browns out of the game... He put his head down, didn't wrap and launched himself into the offensive player.

He and his agent are showing their knowledge of the game (or lack thereof) by constantly calling this a textbook tackle or a legal tackle. Either he is just saying that to try and garner sympathy or he really doesn't know what proper tackling fundamentals are... The latter would be more troubling.
You are correct about...some coaches and upbringing. You probably learned the right way from some quality coaches, I'm sure. But I, as an example, had a few coaches yelling at me, "**** him up!" over the years. I didn't really practice leading with my head, I was definitely trying to wrap people up 99% of the time, didn't want to truly hurt anyone but there were occasions when I was stuck in there fighting an RB for a yard and I lowered the shoulder just trying to deliver the strongest blow I could...and ended up hitting with something else. I'm pretty sure, if we had rules like the NFL's, I'd have been fined a few times. Of course, I'd also probably have changed my approach but I'm just saying that I can empathize.

A lot of players were brought up playing that way, it's not such a simple issue. The reason these defenders deliver the hits they do is because they were taught to. These vicious hits have been going on for decades, since football was invented, really. It's not that players are all of a sudden playing more violently, it's that the NFL has only just recently become sensitized to what a violent game tackle football is and so now a lot of defensive players are having a hard time because they were taught to inflict pain. It's literally been a part of defense. Ever hear about how some WR is "Scared to go over the middle," "alligator arms," etc? It's because they don't want to get the kind of hit that is now being made illegal. This is actually a big adjustment that defenders are being forced to make here. Harrison is ridiculous for threatening to retire but people aren't realizing that defensive players are being forced to go against their instincts.

It's almost like telling Ray Allen he has to start shooting jumpers left-handed...not really that tough, but still, a major, and somewhat debilitating adjustment.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
As a Bengals fan, it's in my blood to hate the Steelers, but at the very least, I could say that they were a respectable organization once upon a time.

That day is now over. Between Ben, and idiots like Jeff Reed and Harrison, it looks like the inmates are starting to run the asylum there. I do respect Troy and a handful of others there, I will say.

He's also a woman beater.

oh, and here's a real gem:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_398120.html

sounds like a real winner......

The Steelers are no longer a respectable organization? You do realize we just traded Santonio Holmes for pennies on the dollar because of his off the field issues and their was a ton of speculation that Ben would reach the same fate. Also, Rooney was going to suspend Ben even before Goodell was and before the whole mess got settle in court. Saying the organization is no longer respectable is ludicrous.

And I have no answer for Jeff Reed. Dude is a clown but I guess we wanted to keep him around because he is experienced kicking at Heinz Field which can be tricky. My guess is we get rid of him in this next offseason consider we didn't sign him to a new deal.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
The Steelers are no longer a respectable organization? You do realize we just traded Santonio Holmes for pennies on the dollar because of his off the field issues and their was a ton of speculation that Ben would reach the same fate. Also, Rooney was going to suspend Ben even before Goodell was and before the whole mess got settle in court. Saying the organization is no longer respectable is ludicrous.

And I have no answer for Jeff Reed. Dude is a clown but I guess we wanted to keep him around because he is experienced kicking at Heinz Field which can be tricky. My guess is we get rid of him in this next offseason consider we didn't sign him to a new deal.

Ok, for me to say that the organization is no longer respectable may have been a bit strong, but once upon a time, I think they were ran a bit differently from other teams. That is, you weren't going to play for the Rooneys if you were a clown.

Now, it just seems like they are like everyone else. If you are a bum and **** up off the field, you are gone (Cedric Wilson). If you have talent, they may turn the other cheek (unless you are Santonio Holmes--which I give them props for).

I have no doubt in my mind that Ben got a complete verbal undressing from team management, and if he so much as farts wrong, he's on the first bus outta town, but I get it. Their standard is winning Super Bowls, and Ben has done that twice. People give winners breaks not just in football, but in life.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
Ok, for me to say that the organization is no longer respectable may have been a bit strong, but once upon a time, I think they were ran a bit differently from other teams. That is, you weren't going to play for the Rooneys if you were a clown.

Now, it just seems like they are like everyone else. If you are a bum and **** up off the field, you are gone (Cedric Wilson). If you have talent, they may turn the other cheek (unless you are Santonio Holmes--which I give them props for).

I have no doubt in my mind that Ben got a complete verbal undressing from team management, and if he so much as farts wrong, he's on the first bus outta town, but I get it. Their standard is winning Super Bowls, and Ben has done that twice. People give winners breaks not just in football, but in life.

Yeah, Ben gets more leeway than other players because he is a terrific QB with a great resume and he is so important to the team. I honestly thought he was going to be traded this offseason but he's definitely on a short leash. He's at least shown some remorse and willingness to change, which is why Santo got shipped out of town.

Harrison is obviously a moron but he hasn't really done anything worthy of being shipped out of town for. I wish he would just stop talking to the media but other than that and a few sketchy hits here and there he's been nothing but an asset to the club.

And **** Jeff Reed. I can't express how much I wish he was gone. I was ready to murder him after he missed 2 FGs in the Baltimore game.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO1J8...eature=related

There's another tackle from this year on DeSean, this one by Eric Berry, where the player launched himself head first and an injury came from it. That one much different but another "lowering of the crown" hit.


Maybe these new rules can force Asante to actually wrap up now, not this dumb shit.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

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Maybe these new rules can force Asante to actually wrap up now, not this dumb shit.

Helmet to helmet block! Sorry Louis Murphy you've just been fined $30,000.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

James Harrison is embarrassingly stupid. And this is the first thread I've read word for word in months.
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:52 PM   #45
Bring-Your-Js
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Default Re: Harrison excused from practice while contemplating retirement.

Meh.

Harrison doesn't deliver hits any differently than several former defensive players who are IDOLIZED and touted as Legends beyond rational comprehension.

Since this guy became a starter, he's been one of the best players in football, flat out. It speaks volumes to me that since 2007 (his breakout year), he's forced 8 MORE fumbles than the next guy on the list (DeMarcus Ware, last time I checked). And yes, there's a significant difference between a scrub making questionable hits and somebody who's dominating the game at the highest level. Did you check the latest masterpiece he spun off? 5 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 interception. IMO he should be among the top candidates for DPOY again. His tackle numbers are spectacular compared his OLB peers, he can hang with the best as far as sacks are concerned and he's been second to None at knocking the ball out of the carrier's arms.

Last edited by Bring-Your-Js : 11-27-2010 at 09:58 PM.
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