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Old 07-18-2007, 03:34 AM   #121
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

SSSSSScottie PPPPPPippen
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:13 AM   #122
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Walt Frazier
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:11 AM   #123
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Pip
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:04 PM   #124
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Fence
Why?

The voters of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players disagree.

Pippen was All-NBA 1st Team 3 times; Wilkins once. Both played forward.

Pippen was an elite defender; Wilkins was below average.

Pippen was a great passer and playmaker who played point forward; Wilkins was a below average passer.

Pippen was a member of 6 championship teams, nearly made the Finals as the best player on the Jordan-less Bulls and with Portland. He had one of the most extensive playoff careers in NBA history. Wilkins's Hawks got as far as losing 4-3 in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals

What did Wilkins do better than Pippen? He scored more and was a better dunker, although Pippen was more than adaquate in those departments. Wilkins was a better FT shooter.

---

Clyde Drexler made the All-NBA 1st Team once as a guard; Wilkins once as a forward.

Drexler was a very good passer. He was a better ball theif. And he scored more and was a better dunker than Pippen slightly. Drexler was the best player on 2 Portland teams that made the Finals. He was the second best player on a championship team in Houston.

---

Walt Frazier was All-NBA 1st Team 4 times, was an elite defender, a great passer, playmaker and ballhandler, who was the 2nd best player on 1 championship team and generally the best player on another championship team and another team that made the Finals.

How was Wilkins better than Frazier? He scored more and was a better dunker. He was a slightly better rebounder and FT shooter.

---

So, in conclusion, Wilkins was a scoring machine. He may not have played with the greatest supporting cast, but when you can't pass or make plays consistently for others, that doesn't really matter. He led mostly mediocre teams. He had great athletic ability and showed it off with spectacular dunks, but not for defense. He's too much of a one-dimensional kind of player to be voted for this high.

How are you evaluating defense...is it by reputation? becuz Wilkins was not below average defender...He wasn't noted for defense but its comparable to the way people say Vince Carter plays no defense when in reality his defense is as good as a guy like KB8 who has made ALL-Defensive teams....not saying Nique was a defender like PIPPEN is but you seem to call a lot of scorers poor defenders...
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:08 PM   #125
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Pippen
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:09 PM   #126
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

This is all Pip. Has to be.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:41 PM   #127
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

not to be too obtuse about this, because pip is definitely one of my boys, and i'd be perfectly happy to see him land this slot, but why?

forget legends like reed, hayes, cowens, and unseld who are still out there. what lifts pippen up over his own contemporaries like clyde drexler, patrick ewing, and even kevin mchale? i'm just wondering what the thought process is.

also as i look at it, this whole thing has broken down into a jumbled mess. i'm not saying it's wrong or awful, but having seen a lot of the names that we're talking about play for their whole careers, i can see accumulated stats really raising guys up past the positions they would have been taken in their haydays. i guess if you're going on pure legacy / accomplishment rather than skill level things change some, but i'd just like to hear some rationales.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:44 PM   #128
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
not to be too obtuse about this, because pip is definitely one of my boys, and i'd be perfectly happy to see him land this slot, but why?

forget legends like reed, hayes, cowens, and unseld who are still out there. what lifts pippen up over his own contemporaries like clyde drexler, patrick ewing, and even kevin mchale? i'm just wondering what the thought process is.

also as i look at it, this whole thing has broken down into a jumbled mess. i'm not saying it's wrong or awful, but having seen a lot of the names that we're talking about play for their whole careers, i can see accumulated stats really raising guys up past the positions they would have been taken in their haydays. i guess if you're going on pure legacy / accomplishment rather than skill level things change some, but i'd just like to hear some rationales.
I would to, out of all the players chosesn, I have yet to see anything witten on Pippen, no debates or nithing just Scottie Pippen or Pip.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:02 PM   #129
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
I would to, out of all the players chosesn, I have yet to see anything witten on Pippen, no debates or nithing just Scottie Pippen or Pip.

Honestly, I didn't realize he had so many votes or else I would have made an argument. I think the combination of unargued votes and the distraction by Payton's folks made us all miss Pippen.

Pip is alright and is arguably the 2nd best SF ever - he is certainly no worse than Baylor, Kobe or Dr.J that are already on the list - but I don't think he's better than some of the aforementioned former MVP's.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:33 PM   #130
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Default Re: Official #26 NBA Player Of All Time According To ISH

Quote:
also as i look at it, this whole thing has broken down into a jumbled mess. i'm not saying it's wrong or awful, but having seen a lot of the names that we're talking about play for their whole careers, i can see accumulated stats really raising guys up past the positions they would have been taken in their haydays. i guess if you're going on pure legacy / accomplishment rather than skill level things change some, but i'd just like to hear some rationales.
Sorry for the bump, but...

Exactly.



And I see Glove brought out the FG% for Payton in that game 3. I have nothing to counter that. Truly amazing stat, really. How many guys shoot 100% for a game, especially on a whole... wait, how may shots did he take?
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