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Old 11-01-2007, 12:57 AM   #1
BobCatsFanInTx
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Default What happened to the hornets marriage?

I never have fully understood what happened to y'all and the relationship to George Shin and the Hornets. The way I understood it, George wanted a new stadium and the people of NC and Charlotte did not agree to it. I bring this up because it reminds me of the Seattle situation. If the stadium was an issue with everyone why did it take the Hornets leaving to agree to a new arena for another expansion team? I may be a bit lost so forgive me. I just never understood what went wrong.

Will it take the Sonics leaving and a possible expansion possibility in the future to build a new arena? If that happens Washingtonians should be ashamed.

I will tell you how I became a Hornets fan. The Hornets were the first expansion team in basketball that I had ever witnessed and when Miami and them entered I just naturally liked the Hornets best and took to the team. Before expansion of the two teams in the late 80's I was and still am to a degree a Nuggets fan.

I grew up in Colorado until age 16 or 1987 when I came to East Texas.

Now when the Hornets organization moved from Charlotte I still followed them and remained a fan as I am to this day but when this new Carolina team entered the league I jumped on board almost as an afterthought because of my love for the Hornets and what the city had. I remember thinking how Carolina fans were the the best fans I had ever witnessed and really wanted some of the old magic "and no not Orlando magic," to return to the people who would raise this new team to greater heights than even the Hornets reached. Plus I never was sure who was to blame when it came to the Hornets situation. Anyhow even if I have thought the Carolina people were a bit wrong over these years since the old team left. I really have no opinion at this time but would love to hear y'alls opinions on the Hornets and Charlotte divorce.

P.S. Would love to see MLB come to Charlotte and the people of North Carolina. Maybe baseball will expand in the next ten years.

I do like other Carolina teams.The Hurricanes are my fourth favorite hockey team. The Panthers come after my Denver Broncos in football and the Bobcats are my third favorite team after the Nuggets and the Hornets in basketball. The Dallas Mavericks and Orlando Magic are honorable mention favorites.
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Old 11-01-2007, 10:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Originally hailed as a home town hero, George Shin soon discovered that it takes a lot of money to run an NBA franchise properly and that most owners use a franchise to boost their egos, not as a primary business. After signing Larry Johnson to what was then the largest contract in sports, George decided to operate on the cheap. Alonzo Mourning was hung out to dry and the team never regained the magic chemistry of the 1993 season.

George then gets accused of raping a woman he picked up at a dry-out clinic and brought back to his house (his wife being gone at the time.) He was eventually acquitted, but the trial brought out a lot of nasty skeletons from his closet. The city no longer considered him a favorite son.

After the trial George brought in a partner, Ray Wooldridge, who had all the personality of a paper bag but the same philosophy of getting by as cheaply as possible. When the fans and media started grumbling that the owners didn't care enough about the team, they demanded a new arena.

The Charlotte coliseum was built at Shin's behest before the city was granted a franchise. George threatened to move the team to South Carolina if the city didn't build it. Now, only a few years later, he's demanding a new arena and states that he will move the team if he doesn't get it.

The people of Charlotte had had enough of this little Napoleon. Most thought that even if we built a new arena, the team would still be mediocre because of the owners. A referendum on the arena was overwhelmingly defeated. George and Ray subsequently got a ridiculous deal from New Orleans (the city pays them for lost revenue due to poor ticket sales) and moved the team. Interesting to note that after hurricane Katrina, George was among the first to jump ship and move the team to Oklahoma City.

So 2 years after the Hornets fiasco here comes Bob Johnson with an expansion team and a new arena deal to a city that is still smarting from being treated like one of Shin's whores. It's understandable that fan support has so far been underwhelming.

The good news is that winning will make most of the Bobcats problems disappear. I am confident that the franchise will eventually become one of the premiere teams in the league. It will take some time and patience though.
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Old 11-01-2007, 12:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Charlotte seems to require some sort of personal relationship with their owners of professional sports teams. He has to be a Christian (the real kind...not those weekend warrior types), white, maintain his chief residence in the city and he needs to kiss their collective butts every so often to prove he still "loves" them. He also has to stay out of all trouble, and heaven forbid if one of his players does anything wrong.

They should have built the stadium. They should have shown up to support their team in the frigging playoffs instead of staying home and making themselves a mockery across the league.

Thanks to the original love fest Charlotte got a 2nd chance. I'm starting to have doubts on whether they'll realize having an NBA franchise is a PRIVELIGE instead of a right. They still aren't supporting the team (opening night after trading for a great player in JRich they've only sold between 13k-14k tix) and are making it harder and harder for the Bobcats to even make a go of it.

The real test will be when we make the playoffs. If winning doesn't set them straight then nothing will.

Last edited by ~spectre~ : 11-01-2007 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~spectre~
he needs to kiss their collective butts every so often to prove he still "loves" them.

They should have built the stadium.

I think that a new arena would have been built for any other owner. Bob Johnson is much better suited to be an NBA owner because the team is not a major source of income for him and he has deep pockets. I don't think people care whether he kisses their butt or not. Once again, winning will bring people back.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Um, the city didn't want the arena and we got screwed by it being around. You see, the stadium is too small and it fills the needs of the owners, not the city. We will get the ACC and the NCAA this year only b/c we were already contracted to do so. Now, the stadium doesnt hold enough people to get it back b/c it has too many luxury boxes.

Just b/c Bob Johnson gave us the 'privelage' of a team, he has to earn our loyalty. We dont just give it to a team that slaps our city name on the franchise. I support the Cats but I also understand why people dont. We lost the Hornets b/c or a selfish owner and Bob hasnt shown us that he is any different with his luxury boxes, his high ticket prices, his lack of spending, and the fact that he named the team after himself.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Probably (to RufusPaul).

I didn't like Shinn either, but IMO Charlotte still should have supported the team on the court. It appeared to me that a lot thought they could pressure him into selling the team but it backfired after he got permission to move them instead.

I'd just truly hate for us to lose another franchise. If that happened there won't be a 3rd chance.

THB...I just disagree with this "earn our loyalty" thing. He's putting a product on the floor; folks purchase tickets to be entertained by that product. Why does it have to be personal?

Just my opinion.

BTW...I think that "lack of spending" shouldn't be an issue anymore should it? And he did kick out the 300 million to get the franchise...IMO he paid for the right to name it whatever he wanted.

Didn't the city sign off on the arena plans? I'm assuming when you say the "city didn't want the arena" you're talking about the population vs. the managers.

Last edited by ~spectre~ : 11-01-2007 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelBorn
Um, the city didn't want the arena and we got screwed by it being around. You see, the stadium is too small and it fills the needs of the owners, not the city. We will get the ACC and the NCAA this year only b/c we were already contracted to do so. Now, the stadium doesnt hold enough people to get it back b/c it has too many luxury boxes.

The arena (not stadium) could not and should not have been built with specifically the ACC and NCAA in mind. In its current configuration this arena is on par, if not slightly larger than most NBA arenas. For NBA hoops it can hold 19,000+. For NCAA hoops, the area above the Rock the Rooftop was built to be able to house approximately 2000 additional seats. Show me more than one or two other arenas in cities the size of ours that can hold more than 21,500 people. Unless you look at an arena built specifically for college hoops, you're not going to find one. For the overwhelming majority of events, the size of this arena is just fine.

And, who in the city did not want THIS arena? If you're referencing the non-binding vote, what got voted down was a bundle that included to 4 or 5 other items as well as an arena for George Shin. Had the arena been put for a vote on it's own without the other stuff for someone other than Shinn it very well may have. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Last edited by Sascol : 11-01-2007 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Yes, I meant the population... the people who go to the games. The managers had to put the arena in with a bunch of other city plans like Imaganon and money for the Children's Theatre to get the population to vote for it.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

THB...apologies for my initial post; I made the mistake of coming over here after visiting the Charlotte.com message boards. Obviously I'm not in Charlotte so I didn't live thru it but from a 3 hr distance.

My main thing is I do not want to lose this team.
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Old 11-01-2007, 03:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascol
The arena (not stadium) could not and should not have been built with specifically the ACC and NCAA in mind.

How true. The old coliseum was built for events like the circus and quickly became obsolete for the NBA.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Originally hailed as a home town hero, George Shin soon discovered that it takes a lot of money to run an NBA franchise properly and that most owners use a franchise to boost their egos, not as a primary business. After signing Larry Johnson to what was then the largest contract in sports, George decided to operate on the cheap. Alonzo Mourning was hung out to dry and the team never regained the magic chemistry of the 1993 season.

George then gets accused of raping a woman he picked up at a dry-out clinic and brought back to his house (his wife being gone at the time.) He was eventually acquitted, but the trial brought out a lot of nasty skeletons from his closet. The city no longer considered him a favorite son.

After the trial George brought in a partner, Ray Wooldridge, who had all the personality of a paper bag but the same philosophy of getting by as cheaply as possible. When the fans and media started grumbling that the owners didn't care enough about the team, they demanded a new arena.

The Charlotte coliseum was built at Shinn's behest before the city was granted a franchise. George threatened to move the team to South Carolina if the city didn't build it. Now, only a few years later, he's demanding a new arena and states that he will move the team if he doesn't get it.

The people of Charlotte had had enough of this little Napoleon. Most thought that even if we built a new arena, the team would still be mediocre because of the owners. A referendum on the arena was overwhelmingly defeated. George and Ray subsequently got a ridiculous deal from New Orleans (the city pays them for lost revenue due to poor ticket sales) and moved the team. Interesting to note that after hurricane Katrina, George was among the first to jump ship and move the team to Oklahoma City.

So 2 years after the Hornets fiasco here comes Bob Johnson with an expansion team and a new arena deal to a city that is still smarting from being treated like one of Shinn's whores. It's understandable that fan support has so far been underwhelming.

The good news is that winning will make most of the Bobcats problems disappear. I am confident that the franchise will eventually become one of the premiere teams in the league. It will take some time and patience though.
Thank you for a wonderful post. I understand things a lot more than I did. I still support the Hornets but I wish the Charlotte Fans would realize how much their support of the Bobcats could help add wins to their season. This franchise and it's owner seem very dedicated to bringing in a contender and the way this team scraps and claws nearly every game, they deserve a bit more support from the fans. On another post about fan support that I started it was said that the past is the past. I hope former Hornets fans can see that and support the Bobcats soon. Anything less than 40 wins by this team would be a disappointment imo. If the Bobcats start the month of November above 500 than I hope the fans will start to do their part to contribute to a playoff run. After all the fans do contribute.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Bobcats attendance looks like the Palace in Auburn Hills compared to New Orleans attendance. If im not mistaken opening night in the big easy drew a paltry 12,000 fans. Im glad Shinn is struggling down there. Hes a scumbag.
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liverpooty
Bobcats attendance looks like the Palace in Auburn Hills compared to New Orleans attendance. If im not mistaken opening night in the big easy drew a paltry 12,000 fans.

The paid attendance in N.O. on opening night was just over 15,000. Due to a number of factors, they'll have a long season of small crowds ahead of them.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liverpooty
Bobcats attendance looks like the Palace in Auburn Hills compared to New Orleans attendance. If im not mistaken opening night in the big easy drew a paltry 12,000 fans. Im glad Shinn is struggling down there. Hes a scumbag.
I would assume attendance in NO is due to the fact that the team used Oklahoma City while the people were recovering from Katrina. So the fact the attendance is slow in NO is not really a shocker at this time. The people of NO supported the Saints through some really lousy years and their is no doubt the fans will come around to supporting all their sports teams once the place get s back to some kind of normalcy. So many were displaced after Katrina and who knows when the governments both state and national start to put real time and money into rebuilding.

With all that said this is not a political board so I will keep it to basketball.

If Vincent does not start giving more minutes to Carroll and and Herrman this team is going to struggle. Especially if Vincent doesn't get it through his head that Felton can not play the sg position.

This team is also in desperate need of a true center who can play in the post.
Okafor is no power in this aspect of his game and we need a solid low post presence.

Herrman could be some great trade bait and add either AmMo or May and we could get a quality true center. We need to play Herrman one way or the other, whether it is to showcase him or use his skills to advance he is way to good to sit. When we played the Heat it made me sick that Vincent didn't use Carroll til GWall was injured briefly and Carroll never really had time to contribute.

No matter what it is nice that this team is 2 and 0. Vincent may not have made the best decisions on the outside looking in but a win is a win and as long as this team is winning I won't be doing a whole lot of complaining. Still, I predict that if we don't get some post up play and coach V continues with some sort of two point guard rotation the winning will not be enough to make a playoff run. Oh and Brezec needs to ride the pine.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: What happened to the hornets marriage?

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The people of NO supported the Saints through some really lousy years and their is no doubt the fans will come around to supporting all their sports teams once the place get s back to some kind of normalcy.

Actually the Hornets had the league's worst attendence the year before Katrina (30th - 2004-2005)...the expansion Bobcats, featuring the world renowned Tamar Slay, were 29th.. With just the one game in this season we're now 23rd, based on a Friday night game in competition with high school football. NOLA is 28th.

Wonder what the excuse was back then?

Quote:
With all that said this is not a political board so I will keep it to basketball.


Good move.

I imagine the reserves will get more PT once they deserve it. As V is a defense oriented coach if I were them I'd be focused on that.
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