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Old 10-09-2018, 12:22 AM   #121
Cleverness
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Default Re: The Road to Trillion Dollar Federal Deficit

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More people are going to college because more companies require college degrees even for entry-level jobs. People aren't going to college because the government wants people to go to college. If you can get a job that pays very well in a field without having to go to college and the same job becomes available in the same field with the same pay, but requires a college degree, do you think people are going to waste 2-4 years in college and rack up debt just because the government is promoting college educations?

Yes, people are going to college and rack up debt because they've been told to since day 1 of high school. I'm not anti-college. If you want to become an engineer, then I actually recommend that you go to college. But I'm against this giant promotion of college (as described in the video with Mike Rowe) that happens in every public HS in the US. Every public HS student has been lectured on "the benefits of going to college" and the lectures are way too general and the message that gets put out is "just go and you'll earn more." Poll American HS students on what profession they want to have when they're 25... most will say they don't know, but they'll also say they are going to college. they have already been convinced that they are they're going to college, and their "why" is simply to earn more money because that's what they've been told to do. Then poll non-American students.. you'll find an Indian student for example is set on engineering or medicine.. something with an actual reason to go to college



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Um... the link underscores what I argued. The exponential increase in daycare pricing isn't a result of government involvement... it's a market reaction to more kids being in daycare. Caregiver to child ratios are an obvious requirement. Would you drop a child off at a daycare where there was only one caregiver and 20 babies or toddlers? Are you against local and city governments setting rules in place for these sorts of things too? The federal government is nowhere near this as pointed out by the "lack of consistent regulation" section.


They're noting that if there were federal gov regs in place, the licensing and registration process may be easier from state to state. Insurance and legal costs aren't affected by government either. That's a standard cost of doing business, especially when you're taking care of babies. The minimum wage has been stagnant for decades and has certainly not contributed to the sharp increase in childcare.

Thanks for posting that. It really bolsters my point. Market influences and the cost of doing high volume business have driven up the price of daycare. Not government.

You specifically said "no government involvement in sight" and the link specifically shows some government involvement...

I would look into the daycare and the caregiver to baby ratio would definitely be a factor in my decision. Another factor would be reviews of that daycare center and opinions from people I know who send/sent their child there. This is what responsible parents do. Let's not pass on so much of this freedom, responsibility, and cost, to gov't... and especially not federal gov't!

The fact that there are half-baked government licensing and registration processes is the problem of government. The solution isn't to rely on the federal gov't to provide one size fits all standards to every town across America; it's to fix the licensing and registration process at the local level


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You're not acknowledging that the college graduate had to have learned the material required by many of these high paying professions to work in those professions. Someone who doesn't go to college can be smart with a better work ethic than someone who did. In many cases, they can also make more money than someone who did. But college graduates make more money than people who don't go to college because they took the time to lean material and specialize in fields that, on average, pay more money. It's a simple, fact that, on average, jobs that require a college degree pay more than jobs that do not require a college degree. The majority of those jobs require people who are smart with a good work ethic... but the kicker is that those smart hardworking people needed to have learned the material required to work in their fields, and those fields generally require going to college.

Being smart and hardworking is a factor, but those traits alone aren't going to get you into an interview in a hospital for a position as a surgeon or an interview with Bain as a project manager.

I am not only acknowledging it, but also being very specific. You are too general when you speak of college degrees, while I keep pointing out major differences between chosen studies.

A surgeon learned a lot of material directly related to what he'll be doing everyday. Someone who majored in east-Asian studies, sociology, or Latin isn't going to be learning very much material directly related to their future job. That being said, someone who actually completes the ~4 years it takes for a degree in those studies has shown to have some level of dedication and commitment, which is why they will earn more than the average person, despite not learning much directly related to their future job.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:27 AM   #122
Cleverness
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Default Re: The Road to Trillion Dollar Federal Deficit

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Originally Posted by MaxFly
I found the study you cited. Here is a key part.



So doctors, lawyers, ect... were apparently omitted from that study.



I'm not amazed because I'm well aware of the job and career opportunities that are out there. I'm well read on the issue and I'm familiar with a fair number of endeavors aimed at getting young people into careers outside of the college/grad school route. Not too long ago I urged someone I know to take a certificate program in computer repair. My argument isn't that there aren't good opportunities available. It's that corprorations and industries, not government, are the ones primarily responsible for requiring college degrees for jobs, and thereby driving up the price of college tuition. I want to make sure that doesn't get lost in all of this. Libertarians and Republicans are so quick to blame government while Democrats are quick to give government a pass, and we fall into political debates so quickly that we miss the nuances inherent in policy.

Wow, GREAT job on your part actually looking into the study.

A lot of news reporters/writers omit a lot of key things and put their own spin on it.

But still the fact remains that only 27% of grads having a job related to their major, which imo is strong evidence for what I've been saying about college degrees.


Hmm, you make a good points, and I do agree that sometimes employers are missing out on potentially great employees by requiring a bachelors degree, but... that also means that employers who hire these great people will win in the long run and employers will change their hiring habits. In fact, I'm sure a lot of employers are already doing this. I used to hire people and the funny thing is, it only took me about 6 months of experience to realize that a college degree meant very little (in most fields). I hired AMAZING people over people who had bachelor's degrees and even PhDs. You know why? Because I believe the following attributes are WAY more important than a degree:

-Easy to work with. I don't care if you know calculus 4 or quantum mechanics.. if you are a complainer about little things, then I'm hiring someone else
-Positive energy. I like to keep things positive wherever I'm at. Hiring someone who is negative all the time is counterproductive. Yes, we can complain about the board and some of their decisions and all that... but there's ALWAYS something we CAN complain about.
-Try their best in everything they do. If someone gives it their best, I am never mad at them. I'm actually never mad at someone anyway because I'm a super chill manager. Even as a manager, I'm completely open and all ears if an employee wants to teach me something. If you are open to learning when I train you, then we'll be successful together

I can go on, but you get the picture. Bottom line is managers who end up hiring the best employees will succeed in the end.
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