Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season with league and finals mvp

[Euroleague]

LOL!!!!

LeBron takes a big steaming dump all over prime Bird. Better scorer, better finisher, comparable 3-pt shooter (look at his percentage this year), better playoff performer, better ball handler, better passer, better stats, waaay better defender in every respect (help, man to man, post). He also led far worse teams to much more impressive records. Bird could never take the Cavs to league-leading regular season records.

LeBron will have probably ten 30+ PER seasons by the time his career is over. Bird has zero

You are retarded.

[2010splash]

It doesn't take into consideration different team strategies on offense and different rosters surrounding star players.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Even Durant isn't all that ball dominant and he destroys Bird's career high PER at just age 24. Perhaps you are just making excuses for a player who, while one of the all time greats, is certainly nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. And certainly is nowhere near as good as LeBron currently is. Oops. There goes your ball dominance = high PER, therefore PER = useless theory.

For your conclusion to be valid your eyes actually need to be connected to your brain. Bird could score 10 points and still completely dominate the game. How do I know? I've seen him do it. Eye test is a bitch.

Good for him. So can LeBron. And he can do it on both ends. He can shut down the opposing team's best player and guard all 5 positions. Offense is only half the game... you ignore that half and what does Bird give you... jack sh-t.

The 61 win Celtics didn't have Parish and McHale and Archibald and Maxwell on their own were 2nd worst in the league "good." What Bird did would be like taking the last year's Pistons to the top of the conference and the conference finals this year.
Also, neither Parish nor McHale were HoF-ers when they joined the Celtics. McHale took a few years before he started contributing and Parish was a 17, 10 center of the 2nd worst tam in the league, the late 70's equivalent of Greg Monroe.

I never said they did. You said the season after that Bird led them to a title. I was pointing out how much more talented his 2nd year title team was compared to any of LeBron's teams up until Miami.

Not so much considering the trash Lebron had to compete against, as opposed to what Bird had to go through.

It certainly was better. Whether or not you want to believe it, the 80's (like any era) was filled with its share of trash teams. All elite teams beat up on the bottom dwellers to achieve impressive regular season records. So the competition argument holds no water. So again, we're back to square one: LeBron leading what proved to be a 19 win team to 66 and 61 wins is far more impressive than Bird leading a 29 win team to 61 wins.

You clearly did miss it. The following season Lebron took a 19 win team to 35 wins. Nowhere near as impressive as 61 and ECF.

Again, no... I did not. You said what Bird did in his 2nd season = more impressive than anything LeBron did, not what Bird did in his 2nd season = more impressive than what LeBron did in his 2nd season. Perhaps you can make the argument that what Bird did in his second year at age 24 was more impressive than what LeBron did in his second year at age 20, but that's not what you said. Simple math: taking 19 win team to 66 wins > taking 29 win team to 61 wins. Owned.

05-06 Lebron took 23 fga, that's the same as the highest volume shooters back then. How many shots per game you think he would get? 30? 40?
Yeah, sure, put him on the post-Gervin Spurs and he may rack up stats, but he also wouldn't win shit either. Put him on a 7-8 players deep team like most contenders were back then and there is no way he would average anything better, regardless of the pace.
So he can put monster stats on 1-man and 3-man deep teams, that's awesome!

Pure speculation on your part saying that he wouldn't win anything. How do you know? A guy who led Cleveland's trash to all-time level regular seasons would certainly lead whatever team he was on to plenty of success in the 80's.

And coincidentally, LeBron's 05-06 season is better than any of Bird's. So no, he wouldn't need 30-40 shots, but he'd clearly get more. And would certainly get more fastbreak and isolation opportunities, both situations suited to his strengths as a player. Pretty obvious that he would rape back then.

Dat pace.
And I have never seen Lebron hustle as much and as hard on defense as I've seen Bird do multiple times.

Worst post ever? Comparing Bird favorably to LeBron in anything related to defense is just grasping at straws. And even if it were true (which it isn't), it doesn't matter much since LeBron is much more effective and has a far greater impact on defense than Bird could ever dream of having.

The fact that Durant is not a multidimensional player? Whatever Durant is doing now I have already seen prime Dale Ellis do. And that's the biggest competition Lebron is facing right now.

Deranged fanboy delusion =/= reality.

Durant's career high PER > Bird's career high PER.

Durant's 65 TS% > Any of Bird's TS%.

When did Dale Ellis ever lead a team to the Finals at age 23?

Bird is closer to Durant than he is to LeBron.

[Rysio]

Durant's career high PER > Bird's career high PER.

more proof of per being a garbage stat. thanks breh.

[2010splash]

more proof of per being a garbage stat. thanks breh.

Or that Bird was kind of overrated and nostalgia has people in straight up denial.

We've seen plenty of players as good/dominant as Bird. Besides Jordan though and maybe Shaq, nobody has ever been as good as LeBron is right now. Truth.

[Rysio]

Or that Bird was kind of overrated and nostalgia has people in straight up denial.

We've seen plenty of players as good/dominant as Bird. Besides Jordan though and maybe Shaq, nobody has ever been as good as LeBron is right now. Truth.

yeah he's been so good and dominant that it only took him 10 years and cheat injury prone shortened season to win a ring.

[cavsfanatic]

Lebron surpassed Bird already. Lebron is the best sf of all time.

[cavsfanatic]

yeah he's been so good and dominant that it only took him 10 years and cheat injury prone shortened season to win a ring.

Cheat? how? injury prone? you talking bout Bosh and Wade both being hurt? I hope you not talking about Avery Bradley lmao. D Rose? yea the Heat lost to them the year before with a healthy D Rose right? oh, they whacked them 4-1? damn... Oh yeah Okc was missing Eric Maynor! that's who you meant right? lol gtfoh

[Champ]

I'm a bird fan, but check 1988 ECF. With Rodman guarding him, Bird shot 35%.

Check the '87 ECF for a more accurate comparison.

Bone spurs in both of Bird's feet were beginning to set in during the 1988 playoffs, limiting his mobility and his ability to create space and get open looks.

We didn't realize it at the time, but that spring marked the beginning of the end for Bird. He was clearly a different player in those playoffs than the regular season.

[get these NETS]

I think 2 more rings and there's no question, regardless of any more mvps


Bird was my dude..and I rooted for the Celtics when I was young, but Bron took ymca team to the Finals...
went to finals twice with ONE other great player...and some also rans ..


also Bird's 3 straight mvps, to me, was marketing move by nba and sports writers..and wasn't a coincidence that nba ratings soared as Bird was the face of the league as the reigning mvp..

1 more ring and he surpasses Bird

[poido123]

This thread.

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.

[poido123]

Lebron surpassed Bird already. Lebron is the best sf of all time.

[2010splash]

This thread.

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.

at you and any other nostalgic overraters of 80's players. Bird could never in his wildest dreams lead this Heat team to the title. When has Bird led a team with a 16/5/5 49.8 TS% #2 option, a 12/7/2 52.4 TS% #3 option and one of the worst rebounding teams to a title?

Imagine Bird trying to guard a Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Paul George, etc. He'd get shat on so badly that they'd have to put him on someone else. The difference between LeBron and Bird is that LeBron locks down the other team's best player. Bird would get embarrassed by them.

LeBron has already surpassed Bird and is the #1 SF ever. Bird would tell you this himself.

[Micku]

at you and any other nostalgic overraters of 80's players. Bird could never in his wildest dreams lead this Heat team to the title. When has Bird led a team with a 16/5/5 49.8 TS% #2 option, a 12/7/2 52.4 TS% #3 option and one of the worst rebounding teams to a title?

Imagine Bird trying to guard a Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Paul George, etc. He'd get shat on so badly that they'd have to put him on someone else. The difference between LeBron and Bird is that LeBron locks down the other team's best player. Bird would get embarrassed by them.

LeBron has already surpassed Bird and is the #1 SF ever. Bird would tell you this himself.

First, you are talking about a player who turned a 29 win team to a 61 win team in his rookie year and won the title next year.

Second, he face against better players than Paul George with James Worthy, Dominique Wilkins, Barkley, Dr. J, Bernard King, and Adrian Dantley. The SF in the 80s were stacked with talent. Granted, he didn't always guard them because they would save him on offense, but he hold his own.

But I do think LeBron accomplishments puts him in discussion on Bird's level. You can argue that he is better due to his defense.

On offense tho, I prefer Bird. Because he played off the ball and could still give his teammates great looks with his passing skills. And he has a better post game. LeBron is more of a point guard, but there are just some bad offense with the Heat sometimes due to his ball dominant and they cannot maximize their potential with that. Granted it could work obviously, but the offense is just standing around too much. You could blame it on the coach and because of LBJ lack of versatility on offense that Bird had.

With that said, due to the LBJ athleticism, it'll probably make him harder to stop. But the way Bird play, he'll maximize your team's talent better than LeBron will IMO.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

This thread.

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.

Biebers >>>> Pedos