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  1. #16
    Extra Cheese LJJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinNYC
    I suspect it is because the bottom 10 all are more violent than north korea. I also suspect the rights of women are probably greater than in some of those countries. Here's what they considered.
    http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea....aspx?id=19171
    Actually, North Korea isn't listed at all because of the extremely limited availability of objective information of any kind.

    It's pretty safe to assume they would be at the very bottom though.

  2. #17
    Lets go Kni....Giants! Bano114's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by brantonli
    We basically run ourselves. Beijing does have a certain amount of influence in HK politics (the Chief Executive must be allowed by Beijing), but because politics tend to be fairly separate from the economics our economy is very free. Plus because we don't have universal suffrage, a lot of people's opinions are expressed in protests and town hall debates, which probably contributed to the freedom of expression bit of the survey.

    oh and about healthcare in HK. There are sufficient low cost government medical facilities alongside private carers, but recently there have been problems of hospitals filled with Mainland Chinese mothers coming to HK to give birth.
    Thats strange. How do other cities operate? I would think leaders of other cities in the country would push for the same kind of freedom?

  3. #18
    Stare bagelred's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    I'm actually stunned U.S. is 7th. I thought we were around 15th or so.....

  4. #19
    5-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    lol like i care about what some jackazz biased canuck has to say while incorporating something like security in an abstract concept such as freedom.

    MURICA NOW AND FOREVER.

    we can dress like emos, we can order pizzas whenever we want we can ride motorsickles we can whine to big retail and they'll refund us back we can go out to a piss poor ghetto and walk to a rich az jework swuburb after.

    I FUKKIN LOVE THE PLACE I LIVE IN. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Home of the brave land of the free. AND I WILL NOT LET TRAITORS LIKE KEVIN OR THE DUTCH RAIN ON M PARADE.

    FUKK YEAH!

    but to be fair hk and nz are awesome.
    Last edited by JEFFERSON MONEY; 01-12-2013 at 03:25 PM.

  5. #20
    877-954-1893 MMM's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagelred
    I'm actually stunned U.S. is 7th. I thought we were around 15th or so.....
    I wonder how high America was in these type of ratings about a decade ago. Seems like we have given up a lot of liberty for a little security. Since then we have seen a surveillance state set up and where due process of American can be suspended if they are deemed a threat to national security.

  6. #21
    Lets go Kni....Giants! Bano114's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMM
    I wonder how high America was in these type of ratings about a decade ago. Seems like we have given up a lot of liberty for a little security. Since then we have seen a surveillance state set up and where due process of American can be suspended if they are deemed a threat to national security.
    Today 02:23 PM
    People seem more concerned about the abuse of power than the abuse of freedom. Both can be dangerous and a balance should be found between freedoms to the people and power of the government to limit the abuses of both.

    I'd give up my second amendment right if it meant people would not be able to take advantage of this freedom and use fire arms to harm innocent people.

    The only problem is, I'm not sure if that would solve the problem. I'm torn on gun control but I was just using that as an example.

    EDIT: Thinking back I probably went a little to far with that statement. To clarify, I believe the right to bear arms should be held by American Citizens, but I would gladly have stricter regulation on owning guns to promote safety.
    Last edited by Bano114; 01-12-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  7. #22
    877-954-1893 MMM's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bano114
    People seem more concerned about the abuse of power than the abuse of freedom. Both can be dangerous and a balance should be found between freedoms to the people and power of the government to limit the abuses of both.

    I'd give up my second amendment right if it meant people would not be able to take advantage of this freedom and use fire arms to harm innocent people.

    The only problem is, I'm not sure if that would solve the problem. I'm torn on gun control but I was just using that as an example.

    EDIT: Thinking back I probably went a little to far with that statement. To clarify, I believe the right to bear arms should be held by American Citizens, but I would gladly have stricter regulation on owning guns to promote safety.
    The problem in America is not the 2nd amendment, it is the unhealthy gun culture. The broad interpretation my some of the 2nd amendment doesn't help but overall that both sides can find common ground instead of inflaming the other side. I personally think that some common ground can be found in areas like mental illness, registrations, and stricter regulations. However, the devil would be in the details in such discussions.

  8. #23
    Lets go Kni....Giants! Bano114's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMM
    The problem in America is not the 2nd amendment, it is the unhealthy gun culture. The broad interpretation my some of the 2nd amendment doesn't help but overall that both sides can find common ground instead of inflaming the other side. I personally think that some common ground can be found in areas like mental illness, registrations, and stricter regulations. However, the devil would be in the details in such discussions.
    Agreed. I brought up gun control because the gun culture in our country is a shining example of those looking to prevent the abuse of freedoms in conflict with those in fear of the abuse of power.

    In a country where many citizens do not trust the government, taking away the right to guns is tough to make popular. The whole reason for this amendment was due to the fact that nobody knew for sure how the new government would play out. When the government was formed people feared that they would abuse their power and they should be armed to protect themselves from tyranny.

    Living with the freedom of having guns is necessary because if we surrender this right we essentially surrender all power to the government. At the end of the day, the power resides with the side who holds the weapons. They are the ones who have the most influence over all others.

    On the other hand making weapons available to citizens has provided numerous examples of the abuse of this freedom (Aurora, Sandy Hook, Columbine, VT) and it is clear more regulation is needed to prevent the weapons from falling in to irresponsible hands.

    The balance needs to found between those 2 aspects in order for the problem to be worked out correctly, at least in my opinion.

  9. #24
    Extra Cheese LJJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bano114
    Thats strange. How do other cities operate? I would think leaders of other cities in the country would push for the same kind of freedom?
    Macau and Hong Kong are pretty unique situations, the political and legal issues involved are more than a little complicated.

    If other cities in China sought that type of autonomy that would basically be secession, Hong Kong however already was completely separate from China.
    The other cities in China are historically part of the country and the leaders of those cities are part of the state party. If they had such ideas contrary to party policy, they obviously wouldn't be high ranking CPC officials in the first place.

  10. #25
    Perfectly Calm, Dude KevinNYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by LJJ
    Actually, North Korea isn't listed at all because of the extremely limited availability of objective information of any kind.

    It's pretty safe to assume they would be at the very bottom though.

    Does it say that about North Korea? Because I guess it would be hard to that data about Myanmar as well.

  11. #26
    In Morey We Trust! brantonli's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinNYC
    You don't have universal sufferage, but these folks consider you among the freest? How does sufferage work in HK.

    Also the land of two rings is Houston?

    I tried to find how they calculate the index which ranked HK as 3rd, and found this:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01...that-possible/

    [QUOTE]Q: Does democracy matter?
    A: The type of government was not included as a category in the Fraser Institute

  12. #27
    Extra Cheese LJJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinNYC
    Does it say that about North Korea? Because I guess it would be hard to that data about Myanmar as well.
    Yeah, you can read the full document here:

    http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploa...an-freedom.pdf

    It doesn't say anything in particular about Burma other than the ratings.

    North Korea is included in a footnote:
    [North Korea Note that the sources clearly indicate that the government of North Korea is among the most repressive in the world with respect to religion as well as other civil liberties. But because North Korean society
    is effectively closed to outsiders, the sources are unable to provide the kind of specific and timely information that the Pew Forum coded in this quantitative study. Therefore, the report does not include a score for North Korea.]

  13. #28
    soundcloud.com/agua-1 andgar923's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by D-Rose
    But they hate us for our 'freedoms'! I mean that's the reason why we got attacked correct?

    So even pre-9/11 how different were those countries from America? I mean, why weren't they attacked?

    Shit, from almost all of the polls that I've seen in the past 20 years, Canada always appears to be amongst the top 5 in anything positive. Why weren't they attacked?

    Oh yeah, that's right.

    They don't impose their 'liberties and freedoms' on Middle Eastern countries and leave them sick, poor and dead.

  14. #29
    Da Mavs
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by andgar923
    But they hate us for our 'freedoms'! I mean that's the reason why we got attacked correct?

    So even pre-9/11 how different were those countries from America? I mean, why weren't they attacked?

    Shit, from almost all of the polls that I've seen in the past 20 years, Canada always appears to be amongst the top 5 in anything positive. Why weren't they attacked?

    Oh yeah, that's right.

    They don't impose their 'liberties and freedoms' on Middle Eastern countries and leave them sick, poor and dead.
    Exactly. Because those other countries don't stick their noses where they don't belong and intervene militarily anywhere they please.

  15. #30
    High School Varsity 6th Man The Real JW's Avatar
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    Default Re: According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMM
    But I thought that you needed guns to keep you free from tyrannical governments......
    They apparently do have guns.

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