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  1. #46
    L alenleomessi's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by baseketball4life
    when has a Euro team won in South America?

    If all things equal, Germany in particular is amazing. Italy is stacked. Spain is very good as well.
    i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

    and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant

  2. #47
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by alenleomessi
    i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

    and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant
    The entire spanish defense and striker would get replaced by italians, if the two teams merged hypothetically.

  3. #48
    Hi, how are you? Lebowsky's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Young
    The entire spanish defense and striker would get replaced by italians, if the two teams merged hypothetically.
    I take it you didn't see the last match, did you? The whole defensive line (and yes, that includes Arbeloa and Pique) look in full form. They were outstanding last night. I wouldn't replace anyone on this team except for Arbeloa and, maybe, Soldado (although he looks very good as well, let's see how he performs).

  4. #49
    NBA sixth man of the year knickballer's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by alenleomessi
    i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

    and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant
    BS. Italy are going through a but of a cold streak but they are still a great squad that are built for tournaments. Their defense is one(if not the best) in the world, their midfield is great with Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchiso and even Montolivo. Not to mention they are always poised, hard nosed and have that winners mentality.

    BTW, I'm sure De Rossi would be able to replace Bosquets easily, Barazagli/Cheillini for Pique and Pirlo is just as good as Xavi/Iniesta(although you obv don't agree since your a barca fanboy)

  5. #50
    Extra Cheese LJJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Eh, Italy and Spain have such different football philosophies that you'd be better off playing with 11 Spaniards than with a mixture of mostly Spaniards and a couple of Italians or vice versa. You have to consider that these players don't really have time to form a common identity either.

  6. #51
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by bdreason
    I believe I heard today that a Euro team has never won a World Cup in South America.
    No Euro team has ever won the WC in South or North America (3 world cups in Mexico and U.S won by Brazil - 2- and Argentina) and Brazil the only non european nation to have won it in Europe. But it took Pele and Garrincha (the duo that never lost a single game together) to do so.

    BTW, Pele and Garrinchas godly record playing together (the 58/62 Brazil is perhaps the greatest team ever in terms of accolades) :

    36 wins and 4 draws in 40 games. They scored together 55 goals in those games - Pele with 44 goals and Garrincha, 11.
    Last edited by lakers_forever; 06-17-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    No Euro team has ever won the WC in South or North America (3 world cups in Mexico and U.S won by Brazil - 2- and Argentina) and Brazil the only non european nation to have won it in Europe. But it took Pele and Garrincha (the duo that never lost a single game together) to do so.

    BTW, Pele and Garrinchas godly record playing together (the 58/62 Brazil is perhaps the greatest team ever in terms of accolades) :

    36 wins and 4 draws in 40 games. They scored together 55 goals in those games - Pele with 44 goals and Garrincha, 11.
    Yeah, the dinosaur age was pretty cool. I swear Pele has to be one of the most overrated player's in soccer history. Meaningless goals in the Brazilian league, and too scared to prove himself with real competition in Europe. Brazil has been consistently underachieving since they won the 2002 WC (or well, 2007 if you want to count the Copa America). They're basically all hype and past glory at this point.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    there is first time for everything really, argentina hasnt improved at all since 2010 ( might have even gotten worse ), brazil are slightly better but very inexperienced and as of right now win on talent alone, uruguay might not even make the WC and as we saw last night, their defense and midfield are average. colombia and chile might make a 1/4 final surprise but thats it.
    looks like germany or spain again, unless argentina finds some wunderkind defender and playmaker

  9. #54
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by knickballer
    BS. Italy are going through a but of a cold streak but they are still a great squad that are built for tournaments. Their defense is one(if not the best) in the world, their midfield is great with Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchiso and even Montolivo. Not to mention they are always poised, hard nosed and have that winners mentality.

    BTW, I'm sure De Rossi would be able to replace Bosquets easily, Barazagli/Cheillini for Pique and Pirlo is just as good as Xavi/Iniesta(although you obv don't agree since your a barca fanboy)
    no i actually agree de rossi is better than busquets and pirlo is better than current xavi, but i would rather go with the sure thing - 2xeuros,1xWC, 2xCL trio, dont you think?

    go watch the euro 2012 final again, and see the difference between chiellini and pique. barzagli? lol... and i would still rather have villa than anyone the italians have at forward ( mario might ruin the team chemistry )

  10. #55
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LilKateMoss
    Yeah, the dinosaur age was pretty cool. I swear Pele has to be one of the most overrated player's in soccer history. Meaningless goals in the Brazilian league, and too scared to prove himself with real competition in Europe. Brazil has been consistently underachieving since they won the 2002 WC (or well, 2007 if you want to count the Copa America). They're basically all hype and past glory at this point.
    Every single player of those squads of Brazil in 58 and 62 played in Brasil. Pele did not have to go anywhere because he already played for the best team in the world in the 60's, Santos. And Pele had a better goal average against european teams than his career average. Pele's Santos destroying Benfica (European champions) in the Portugal for the Intercontinental Cup (Pele scored 3 and gave an assist to Coutinho after a great individual play) :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dw8TWMJik

    Here's the king of European Cup himself (with 5 titles for a Real Madrid that ruled Europe in the late 50's) and one of the greatest footballers ever, Alfredo Di Stefano, saying Pele is the best player ever:

    "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better".


    http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


    Rivera, a legend of the 60's and early 70's, one of the greatest players ever, also saying the same thing:

    "Messi is quite a weapon for Barca. Having him in your team is huge, he's the most decisive player right now," Rivera was quoted as saying by AS.

    "However, I do think there's someone who was even better and that's Pele. He used both feet on the pitch. He was as dangerous with his right as he was with his left. He was strong in the air as well, and created a lot of chances."

    http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


    And here the Ballon D'or (Golden Ball) winners (some of the greates legends of the game) themselves voting for best player ever. 17 past winners voted for Pele while the second place, Maradona, only got 3 votes for first place:

    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/b...-y.html#ff-poc

    You sir are dead wrong in your ridiculous claim. Legends like Di Stefano, Kopa, Rivera who played in Europe in the 60's think Pele was the best while you think he did is overrated because did not play in Europe. Which opinion should we trust?


    Brazil won 2 Copa Americas (2004 and 2007) and 2 confederations Cup (2005 and 2009) since 2002. They underachieved in 2006 and 2010 wc, but most nt's would be glad to have won those titles in 11 years. Argentina, for instance, has not won anything at senior level since the Copa America in 1993.

  11. #56
    NBA sixth man of the year knickballer's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    TBH, it's pointless discussing who the best player of all time is considering Pele played half a century ago and not even in Europe.

    I think it's also unfair how Pele gets regarded as the GOAT. People just assume of it because of the nostalgia and the "urban legends" surrounding him.


    ^^
    Btw, didn't Pele say that Neymar is better than Messi? I think he said this last year lol

  12. #57
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Every single player of those squads of Brazil in 58 and 62 played in Brasil. Pele did not have to go anywhere because he already played for the best team in the world in the 60's, Santos. And Pele had a better goal average against european teams than his career average. Pele's Santos destroying Benfica (European champions) in the Portugal for the Intercontinental Cup (Pele scored 3 and gave an assist to Coutinho after a great individual play) :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dw8TWMJik

    Here's the king of European Cup himself (with 5 titles for a Real Madrid that ruled Europe in the late 50's) and one of the greatest footballers ever, Alfredo Di Stefano, saying Pele is the best player ever:

    "The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better".


    http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


    Rivera, a legend of the 60's and early 70's, one of the greatest players ever, also saying the same thing:

    "Messi is quite a weapon for Barca. Having him in your team is huge, he's the most decisive player right now," Rivera was quoted as saying by AS.

    "However, I do think there's someone who was even better and that's Pele. He used both feet on the pitch. He was as dangerous with his right as he was with his left. He was strong in the air as well, and created a lot of chances."

    http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


    And here the Ballon D'or (Golden Ball) winners (some of the greates legends of the game) themselves voting for best player ever. 17 past winners voted for Pele while the second place, Maradona, only got 3 votes for first place:

    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/b...-y.html#ff-poc

    You sir are dead wrong in your ridiculous claim. Legends like Di Stefano, Kopa, Rivera who played in Europe in the 60's think Pele was the best while you think he did is overrated because did not play in Europe. Which opinion should we trust?


    Brazil won 2 Copa Americas (2004 and 2007) and 2 confederations Cup (2005 and 2009) since 2002. They underachieved in 2006 and 2010 wc, but most nt's would be glad to have won those titles in 11 years. Argentina, for instance, has not won anything at senior level since the Copa America in 1993.
    Yes, because legends of the past overrating other legends who played in their time is something unheard of... Don't get me wrong, I do think he's one of the best players of all time, but I don't think he's the best ever and I also think his scoring averages are grossly inflated, just like those of others from that era. There's a reason why we don't see huge blowouts quite as often as in the past anymore.
    Copa America is an OK competition, I will give you that, but Confederations Cup is a joke and no fan with a drop of knowledge has ever taken it seriously. I know that and you know that.
    You're right about Argentina, they're a big joke at this point, especially with the level of talent they always have available.
    I think Brazil's dominance came to an end for a number of reasons, one of them being fact that back in the day they were so much technically superior to every other team at every position that they could win in a dominating fashion while displaying an attractive game. Nowadays there are better teams than them in that aspect, while some more are on par with them. They also have been lacking a clear collective identity, with a sad example with Dunga as coach. They do have upcoming talent, though. Let's see what they can do in the future.

  13. #58
    National High School Star lakers_forever's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by knickballer
    TBH, it's pointless discussing who the best player of all time is considering Pele played half a century ago and not even in Europe.

    I think it's also unfair how Pele gets regarded as the GOAT. People just assume of it because of the nostalgia and the "urban legends" surrounding him.


    ^^
    Btw, didn't Pele say that Neymar is better than Messi? I think he said this last year lol
    Not even in Europe is not an argument. You are usind todays football to judge football in the 60's. Which are those "urban legends" ?

    Pele scored 5 goals in the last 2 games of the 1958 wc. Football change a lot in 12 years and he was stilll the best player in the world in 1970. He stopped playing in Brazil in 1974 (and still regarded as the best brazilian player), later in the same year a kid named Zico was named the best brazilian league player. The same Zico who ruled the early to mid 80's with the likes of Maradona and Platini. Romario, Baresi, Matthaus were already great players in the late 80's and still were in the next decade. Great payers will always be great players in any era. It does not matter if someone was great in the 60's or today.

    The same in basketball. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the perfect example. He had great battles with a 60's legend like Wilt and dominated in some games against a 90's legends like Olajuwon.

  14. #59
    NBA sixth man of the year knickballer's Avatar
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers_forever
    Not even in Europe is not an argument. You are usind todays football to judge football in the 60's. Which are those "urban legends" ?

    Pele scored 5 goals in the last 2 games of the 1958 wc. Football change a lot in 12 years and he was stilll the best player in the world in 1970. He stopped playing in Brazil in 1974 (and still regarded as the best brazilian player), later in the same year a kid named Zico was named the best brazilian league player. The same Zico who ruled the early to mid 80's with the likes of Maradona and Platini. Romario, Baresi, Matthaus were already great players in the late 80's and still were in the next decade. Great payers will always be great players in any era. It does not matter if someone was great in the 60's or today.

    The same in basketball. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the perfect example. He had great battles with a 60's legend like Wilt and dominated in some games against a 90's legends like Olajuwon.
    Don't use the NBA as an example as the NBA has one league where it's more definite to "crown" the GOAT instead of football where there's many different leagues, competitions, etc.

    BTW, didn't Miroslav Klose break Pele's record for goals in a WC? Or was it Podolski?

  15. #60
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    Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by LilKateMoss
    Yes, because legends of the past overrating other legends who played in their time is something unheard of... Don't get me wrong, I do think he's one of the best players of all time, but I don't think he's the best ever and I also think his scoring averages are grossly inflated, just like those of others from that era. There's a reason why we don't see huge blowouts quite as often as in the past anymore.
    Copa America is an OK competition, I will give you that, but Confederations Cup is a joke and no fan with a drop of knowledge has ever taken it seriously. I know that and you know that.
    You're right about Argentina, they're a big joke at this point, especially with the level of talent they always have available.
    I think Brazil's dominance came to an end for a number of reasons, one of them being fact that back in the day they were so much technically superior to every other team at every position that they could win in a dominating fashion while displaying an attractive game. Nowadays there are better teams than them in that aspect, while some more are on par with them. They also have been lacking a clear collective identity, with a sad example with Dunga as coach. They do have upcoming talent, though. Let's see what they can do in the future.
    That's fair enough. Your previous post seemed like you did not rate him at all.

    Cc Cup is not taken that seriously by fans overall. But when the game is on, teams play it for real.

    I agree about Brazil. Also, 2010 and this generation maybe the worst in terms of offensive players. Only Neymar is that great of a prospect. You don't have a Pele, a Zico, or even players close to recent stars like Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldo. It maybe the first time ever that the back 4 of Brazil is more impressive than the offensive players.

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