Putin is a master strategist

[MavsSuperFan]

Context much? We are not discussing the fall of the Soviet Union and disaster of the "shock therapy" used to liberalize Russia's economy which happened under Yeltsin.

We are discussing how a country that defaulted on its debt a number of times, with a diminishing population and a corrupt government has taken on the mightiest nations of the world, excluding china, and has bitchslapped them around and around without never directly confronting them.

This is not a game, obviously NATO and Russia wont go to war over Ukraine. Its a diplomatic battle and NATO nations haven't won even one round until now.

Ok you just edited your post and went full retard. So let's talk about how Italy's actual government sucks because Rome used to dominate all of the civilized world and now they just rule over Italy..

NATO is winning against russia, no matter what happens in ukraine.

I am not saying its putin's fault russia is in one of the weaker points of its history, but it is in one of the weaker points in its history

[B-hoop]

So what?

The point of the thread is to talk about how Putin from a position of weakness outmanouvered NATO in Ukraine. No one is saying Russia is stronger than NATO, actually its the opposite, which makes it even more impressive.

NATO has the power to just conquer Ukraine outright if it wanted. But through diplomacy and tough talk Russia has been able pretty much dismantle Ukrainian sovereignity and turn it into a failed state where half of the country is in civil war. All that while getting the prize that they wanted and ensuring that Ukraine wont join NATO in the foreseeable future.

[MavsSuperFan]

******s derailing the thread, there is no right or wrong in diplomacy, its a battle of interests between nations.

NATO wants to diminish Russia's sphere of influence, Russia wants to keep it as it is. Its as simple as that.

The sanctions will have a short term effect on their economy but annexing Crimea has bolstered Russia's security for the long term. Crimea is the only way to attack Russia through the sea. If they control the Black Sea they can easily defend themselves. (You can attack it from the Southeast but China is there to block any big army movements in the area).

Their base in Crimea was leased by the Ukrainian government, now its their land so they can stay there for as long as they want. Also it ended the threat of a NATO base being built if/when Ukraine joined the alliance.

You dumb****s have no idea of long term planning ffs.

Also, he clearly calculated that the risk of sanctions weren't meaningful in the long term since Germany/France are afraid to lose their supply of gas and oil, especially now that the summer is ending. You can bet that their will be "problems" in the pipelines just to remind them what would happen if Russia closed the pipes.

NATO wants to diminish Russia's sphere of influence, Russia wants to keep it as it is. Its as simple as that.

Russia's sphere of influence is historically low. They have to fight over ukraine. Poland and the baltic states have american military there.

NATO is raping russia right now. Crimea was under the control of the russian empire and the USSR. Russia controlling it now is not impressive, or unexpected.

nato has already greatly diminished the russian sphere of influence

[MavsSuperFan]

So what?

The point of the thread is to talk about how Putin from a position of weakness outmanouvered NATO in Ukraine. No one is saying Russia is stronger than NATO, actually its the opposite, which makes it even more impressive.

NATO has the power to just conquer Ukraine outright if it wanted. But through diplomacy and tough talk Russia has been able pretty much dismantle Ukrainian sovereignity and turn it into a failed state where half of the country is in civil war. All that while getting the prize that they wanted and ensuring that Ukraine wont join NATO in the foreseeable future.

Losing Ukraine is not a huge loss for nato.

It would be like if you ****ed another guys wife and eventually she chose to go back to her husband. You didnt really lose anything, in fact you had the fun of ****ing her and ruining her family. and the husband has lost a lot

Ukraine kind of belongs to russia and was always deeply influenced by russia.

[B-hoop]

Dude you are completely missing the point.

NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right? Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.

BUT,

They were able to do it

[MavsSuperFan]

Dude you are completely missing the point.

NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right? Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.

BUT,

They were able to do it

No, I understand that the west wants to take ukraine into its sphere of influence.

NATO tried to take Ukraine into the fold right?

I wouldnt word it like that, NATO is full of countries like germany who are at this point russian appeasers.

Ukrainian entry into nato was never likely, but I do think the west was trying to peel ukraine away from russia.

Russia which is a lot weaker and a low chance of being able to stop it from happening.

Ukraine is a million times more important to russia than it is to the west. There was almost a 100% chance that russia would hold on to ukraine if it deployed military forces, because it would be insane of the west to fight russia militarily over ukraine.

The analogy of ****ing some other guys wife and her eventually going back to her husband is apt. The west loses nothing by ukraine being annexed by russia.

BUT,

They were able to do it

It would be insane to fight russia over ukraine. if russia was willing to deploy military forces than o well.

[Godzuki]

we don't want to invade Russia. Why would anyone think that? u know how much of a nightmare that would be even if we were successful, talking about occupying or running that country? we would probably like them to have another leader than a paranoid ex KGB agent tho, we and the EU don't trust him anymore. he completely bold face lied to the EU too, especially after him and the German Chancelor were tight. thats why leader bitches are dumb tho, she befriends probably the most sexist leader on earth thinking she can trust him, and he just played her

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those former Soviet Union countries WANTED to join NATO. in fact they had to go thru a long process to even be allowed in. most countries not run by shitty dictators oppressing their people, with relatively intelligent people who aren't extremists probably all want to join NATO

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Putin won the short term Ukraine/Malaysian airliner downing strategically but he's really fukking Russia once the EU cuts reliance on him/Russia, and sanctions run their course over time. Russia cannot win economically VS the west. he can be cool with India, Iran, NKorea, hell even China but the west runs the world economically. they can starve you out of the world economy if they want to, and they're sort of starving Russia w/ sanctions which take longer terms for effects, albeit reluctantly.

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West is the Best

[KingBeasley08]

Russia is looking at 5% drop in GDP as a result of those sanctions. The Russian economy is quickly turning into an even bigger joke than it already is.

But...Putin looks boss hunting bears. So badass.

Yet his support grows. Dude is a straight up Machiavellian.