After months of rockets flying into Israel, Hamas military chief dead, fighting rises

[eliteballer]

They are all supposed to be "people of the book". It's not like churchgoers vs a pagan worshipping cult.

Issues shouldn't be that hard to work out.

[D-Rose]

Pretty misleading for Steve/Jeff to post that video and for Nick Young to concur that Palestinians are somehow faking injuries and such. The truth is that many women and children are being killed.

But let me take a step back and look at this from a realist perspective. The root source of this problem for me is Hamas. Look, Israel is certainly not worrying about bombing innocent people or taking more land,etc. Hamas are the ones that are ruining this for the Palestinians. It really feels like this whole cycle comes about every few years.

What has to happen to EVER reach peace in this conflict is a stable and moderate Palestinian government. The people need to get away from terrorist propaganda. They need to get away from the dream of destroying Israel--it's only destroying themselves. The facts of the matter are that Israel holds all the cards. They have the backing of every important country and has all the military and economic capabilities. Is rocketing them going to solve anything? ever? **** no.

There has to be some sort of revolution within Gaza, a democratic resurgence led by the intellectuals and moderates of the region. This all sounds like a pipe dream but it has to happen. If there is a stable government in place ready to negotiate and put away all fighting...then Israel would have no more excuses for advancing on land or for not reaching an agreement themselves.

Until then, this status quo will continue on and on. Very sad, but reality. It's up to the Palestinian people to decide what they really want.

[RaininThrees]

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.

[QUOTE]I don

[Godzuki]

Op-Ed from the NYT.. a human perspective from inside Gaza.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/op...f=opinion&_r=0

then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

[bmulls]

then leave to another country? i'm sure there would be a lot of options there and many people willing to help them move.

Israel is doomed to always live in this state since theres too many muslims that hate them. nobody is going to reason with them.

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.

[Blue&Orange]

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.

lol

The fighting between the Arab states and Israel was halted with the UN-mediated 1949 Armistice Agreements, but the remaining Palestinian territories came under the control of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. In 1949, Transjordan officially changed its name to Jordan; in 1950, it annexed the West Bank of the Jordan River, and brought Palestinian representation into the government.

Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan!

[bmulls]

lol

Jordan was born when israel was born, both on previously Palestinian territories so explain me again the "Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel", when Israel was formed there was no Jordan!

#1, Jordan (and Palestine and Israel) were British territories prior to WWI. Transjordan was formed after WWI, Israel was formed after WWII. So you're wrong.

#2, what is the point of your post? To nitpick details? GTFO terrorist sympathizer

[Nick Young]

Because nobody wants them, not even other Arabs. It's actually quite hilarious. You've got the Egyptian PM visiting Palestine and denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Meanwhile Egypt shares a border with Gaza and could take them in any time they wanted. And guess what they do? They guard that shit with tanks.

Google "Black September". Jordan let a whole shit load of Palestinians into their country shortly after the formation of Israel. The Palestinians proceeded to try to take over the country by force. The Jordanians ended up killing hundreds of thousands of them.

The Arab world supports Palestine when it's convenient for them and when it serves their needs, IE whenever they can take shots at Israel. The rest of the time they want nothing to do with them.

So truthful. Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless

[D-Rose]

So truthful.

Anyone who actually talked to any arabs or egpytians would know that they consider Palestinians to be trash, basically in an Arab's mind, Palestinians are only above Israelis.

In other words they hate the Palestinians and want absolutely nothing to do with them. The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash.

I don't know enough about inter-arab islamic politics and their history to know why the other arabs all hate palestine so much, all I know is that they do. It's similar to how the British used to view the Irish in victorian times.

But suddenly, when Israel attacks a terrorist, the whole muslim world unites in favor of their "Muslim brothers in Palestine". Shameless

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

[Nick Young]

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?

[D-Rose]

Do you talk to the real people or just the extremely wealthy western educated ones?

Yes, very real people. Including Palestinian ex-pats.

[eliteballer]

The Egyptian border is right there, if Egypt cared to much they would take in Palestinian refugees or send in aid, or atleast open the border so Palestinians would have a chance to work in Egypt. They don't, because they hate Palestinians and consider them to be human trash

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

[Godzuki]

I can say with certainty that this statement if overall false. I lived in the middle east for 6 years, met Arabs from many countries and still have friends from there now.

As for the overall issue of just taking Palestinians in..the principle is that they want to keep their land...so displacing them as refugees doesn't solve that. It takes the problem from one place and puts it somewhere else.

Ultimately, the Palestinian people need a stable and moderate government. They need to come to the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere and no amounts of rockets will ever defeat them. Swallow that and you can move on to negotiations, which also give Israel no excuses for gaining more lands and such.

These conflicts are far more complicated than most in this thread, in the media, or in the government either can understand or fail to voice.

if they want to keep their land and stay where they're being sieged, then they need to stop playing the sympathy card. people always bring up how many Palestinian women and children have died when they don't even address who is at fault for those killings which is the basis for those deaths in the first place. basically you can throw a rock at a hornets nest and they're going to sting somebody. a reasonable person would then question why that somebody threw the rock in the first place and blame that person. talking about how many people have died and are getting hurt is pointless to the solution.

theres a difference between other countries allowing them in VS them being forced to stay there because nobody else will take them in. thats not a choice. if they don't have a choice then i can't blame them. but if they do, then i have a lot less sympathy for people who want to stay in a war zone when bad things happen to them.

and if Egypt refuses to take any of them in then thats messed up. basically they're forcing Palestinians to be the human shields towards their agenda. altho i don't really get why other countries won't, even non muslim ones. logistics would be a mess but if everyone around the world cared that much reallocating 4 million people is probably possible over time.

[LJJ]

Nick Young is actually right on the money stating that the other Islamic states want nothing to do with Palestinians.


He already pointed out Black September, when the Palestinians attempted a coup in Jordan which resulted in a massacring of Palestinians far beyond anything Israel has done.

Lebanon actually has a bunch of Palestinian refugees from earlier conflicts. They have been there for decades and are still denied any form of citizenship or legitimate status. Same story essentially in Syria, although with Syria's current status it's become more complicated.

Egypt is known to far more strongly protect their border with Gaza than their border with Israel for instance.

[Godzuki]

This statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on social, political, or economic issues.

NO country in the world is going to be eager to take in hundreds of thousands(or millions) of refugees because of the difficulties in finding them jobs, housing, food, integrating them into society etc. There examples all over the world. Do you even know how bad the economy and unemployment rate(especially among youth) is in Egypt already?

If you're THAT ignorant on geopolitical issues you shouldnt even be participating in the conversation.

i think it would be possible with the worlds cooperation. they could be spread throughout different countries where Egypt doesn't have to bear the burden of so many at once. maybe i'm naive to think that, but think of the military and aid groups from all over the world that could move/help them, and them being treated as immigrants. thats IF everyone around the world is so sympathetic to a solution as they portray.