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Old 12-15-2012, 05:43 PM   #91
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeBeast
I put that wrong. I meant once we came to the point where human civilization had a complicated system of language, we began to think of the world differently- what I personally believe is the whole ego, self-centered way mind state came from. Where do you think religion arose from? Is religion not related to how we believe the universe was created?
What does that have to do with anything? Saying we invented language and we can use man made language to describe or "influence" our perceived reality doesn't make our perception actual reality.

Quote:
An MIT student did research and found out that people who speak different languages [which is the comparative method], indeed think differently and language does in fact shape thought and how we see the world around us:
So? What does that have to do with anything?


Quote:
So don't give me that Helen Kelar bull shit, Language is the most important tool to any of our senses and does in fact influence the way we perceive reality.
YOU said that we need language to think.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:45 PM   #92
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

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Originally Posted by shlver
What does that have to do with anything? Saying we invented language and we can use man made language to describe or "influence" our perceived reality doesn't make our perception actual reality.


So? What does that have to do with anything?



YOU said that we need language to think.

So now you're putting words in my mouth....

I never said humans NEED language, nor did I say we need language to think

I corrected myself earlier when I wrote:

Quote:
The question I have is that since we [as humans] created language to think of ourselves as separate things from the universe, isn't it true by the laws of our way of communication that WE are real?

I meant that ever since the human species has come to the point of inventing our own set of languages, our perception of the universe [reality as we perceive it] has changed dramatically. If you go back to the MIT research page, there's more details there.

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What does that have to do with anything? Saying we invented language and we can use man made language to describe or "influence" our perceived reality doesn't make our perception actual reality.

But the thing is that trying to look for anything beyond our own perception would be like trying to bite your own teeth. Saying that our perception is or isn't reality is beyond retarded since it's our own perceptions that CREATE what we call reality.

Get it now?....

Go check out some stuff on quantum mechanics and you'll get the picture.

Last edited by TheeBeast : 12-15-2012 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #93
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

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Originally Posted by TheeBeast
So now you're putting words in my mouth....

I never said humans NEED language, nor did I say we need language to think

I corrected myself earlier when I wrote:



I meant that ever since the human species has come to the point of inventing our own set of languages, our perception of the universe [reality as we perceive it has changed dramatically. If you go back to the MIT research page, there's more details there.




But the thing is that trying to look for anything beyond our own perception would be like trying to bite your own teeth. Saying that our perception is or isn't reality is beyond retarded since it's our own perceptions that CREATE what we call reality.

Get it now?....

Go check out some stuff on quantum mechanics and you'll get the picture.
That is wrong. You just agreed with miller-time when you said "bingo" and his statement directly contradicts yours.
You started your argument for what is real by saying we define through language what is real. Sure, we can semantically define the word real because we created language, but it is not actual reality. Look up what reality means. Reality is not created by our perceptions. What gave you such an idea?
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:34 PM   #94
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

Our brains interpret reality and what we see, hear, touch, smell, etc is a construct of what our brain interprets. What about smell or taste? It is solely the structure of the molecule and its interactions with receptors that determines what our brain interprets the molecule to smell or taste like. The smell or taste interpreted could or could not be an ACTUAL property of the molecule, but our brains do not deduce the actual property of structure.

Last edited by shlver : 12-15-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:28 PM   #95
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

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Originally Posted by shlver
Our brains interpret reality and what we see, hear, touch, smell, etc is a construct of what our brain interprets. What about smell or taste? It is solely the structure of the molecule and its interactions with receptors that determines what our brain interprets the molecule to smell or taste like. The smell or taste interpreted could or could not be an ACTUAL property of the molecule, but our brains do not deduce the actual property of structure.

You mean ACTUAL molecules as interpreted by a man-made microscope?

Have you heard of the double slit experiment that clearly proves without a microscope lense to closely observe, molecules suddenly behave like waves.

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Old 12-15-2012, 11:38 PM   #96
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
That is wrong. You just agreed with miller-time when you said "bingo" and his statement directly contradicts yours.
You started your argument for what is real by saying we define through language what is real. Sure, we can semantically define the word real because we created language, but it is not actual reality. Look up what reality means. Reality is not created by our perceptions. What gave you such an idea?

I never said language is what defines reality, rather the observer. I only said in my begining argument that our language alone wouldn't even be able to grasp such a complicated idea of our existence being some sort of alien simmulation, don't you think aliens would have a better language than us?
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:04 AM   #97
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheeBeast
You mean ACTUAL molecules as interpreted by a man-made microscope?


Have you heard of the double slit experiment that clearly proves without a microscope lense to closely observe, molecules suddenly behave like waves.
A conscious observer or a "microscope lense" is not needed to collapse the wave nature of a molecule if it has one. Only a mere change in record like the density of surrounding air, even a tiny change can cause this collapse. There are double slit experiments that show interference that appear closer and closer to two single slit experiments as air density is increased.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:06 AM   #98
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

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Originally Posted by TheeBeast
I never said language is what defines reality, rather the observer. I only said in my begining argument that our language alone wouldn't even be able to grasp such a complicated idea of our existence being some sort of alien simmulation, don't you think aliens would have a better language than us?
That doesn't mean the alien simulation doesn't exist.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:06 AM   #99
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Default Re: Scientists Plan Test to See if The Universe is a Simulation

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Originally Posted by shlver
All of our experiences are constructed by the brain itself. The correspondence between our perception and reality is a modelling system. Useful to us but not actual reality or truth.

Well I was sort of talking at cross purposes. Part of what I was responding to was the nature of our conscious selves. Regardless of sensory perception we still have a feeling of consciousness that exists independent of physical sensation. Whether or not our entire consciousness and sense of self is only a byproduct of brain states (an entirely naturalistic perspective), or whether it exists beyond our physical selves (as in a spiritual sense) I don't know. That is why I limited my statement to established scientific hypotheses or theories. I'm not claiming that everything is reducible to physical brain activity.

Yet.

Although if I were a betting man that is where I would put my money.
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