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Old 06-14-2018, 12:05 PM   #61
elementally morale
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Chris Paul
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Tim Duncan
Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:21 PM   #62
Duffy Pratt
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Chris Paul
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Tim Duncan
Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

vs.

Walt Frazier
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell

I don't know how this one would play out, but I would love to see it. Too bad there aren't bonus points for trash talk, because then I would definitely win.

I think I have a clear edge on defense, and a big edge on rebounding at every position. I also have a really good squad to maximize Jordan while keeping the others involved. And I have a better fast breaking team. I also have an edge on intensity and on proven clutch performances, but I think that's slight.

You have a better half court set offense, and probably more pure offensive skill. It's not clear to me who is going to be your leader (although my team may suffer from having too many leaders). This time, you haven't picked anyone who steps on anyone else's roles. And you have, with the exception of Kobe, players who are unselfish and will fit together well. And it's OK to have one "selfish" player.

On a head to head basis, I think Frazier and Paul are basically a wash, although Frazier would be able to post Paul up. Paul has better assist numbers. Frazier is the better rebounding guard. Frazier is more proven in the clutch. Paul gives better opportunities for pick and roll. I think they are a toss up.

Jordan > Kobe at everything except long range shooting. Both of them will have to be the "man" on offense, but both teams are set up to allow that, more or less. Question is how well Kobe would co-exist with Kareem. Don't know, but probably better than he did with Shaq. I think Kareem is more adaptable.

Bird and Durant. I don't know. Bird is the better rebounder and the better passer. Shooting is hard to say. Durant clearly better at creating his own shot, at least on the perimeter. Bird is better in a post situation. Bird plays better on pick and roll situations. Durant is clearly proving himself in the clutch, and don't have to question Bird there. Durant creates more problems for Bird one on one. Bird is a slightly better team defender.

Timmy and Garnett. Duncan has an edge on defense. Garnett has a slight edge on offense. Garnett is the better rebounder and is faster. Duncan is smarter and more adaptable. Duncan was better over his entire career. Garnett's best year was better. Both are absolutely great team players. Edge to Duncan.

Russell vs. Kareem. Mr Half Court Offense vs. Mr. Defense. Russell better rebounder, better jumper, better leader, smarter, faster, and much less skilled. Kareem is absolutely fantastic in the right situation, with the right guys around him. Russell was the better passer. I think the main questions in this series matchup would be whether Russell's offense would be a severe liability to my team, and how well Kareem would gel with Kobe.

Overall, I think this matchup would come down to tempo. If my team could keep the pace up, it would win. If yours could keep it at a half court set pace, you would win. You have better overall offense for sure, but my team gets quite a few more possessions and second chances.

I also think either of these teams would beat the ones in your original match up.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:21 PM   #63
ClipperRevival
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBAGOAT
Yet the 05-07 suns are some of the top playoff offenses of all time. You also underrate how much Nash did in the halfcourt usually off the pnr

Great point about his GOAT level p&r play. I just perfer my PG to be able to break down defenses by himself and not with picks.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:26 PM   #64
NBAGOAT
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClipperRevival
Great point about his GOAT level p&r play. I just perfer my PG to be able to break down defenses by himself and not with picks.

Nash is also a top tier iso player when he decides too. Heís such a great shooter and so quick off the dribble. He does as much as most but absolutely have 1 on 1 scoring ability
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:38 PM   #65
elementally morale
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Chris Paul
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Tim Duncan
Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

vs.

Walt Frazier
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell


I had 2018 rules in mind. MJ is better than Kobe but w/o handchecking the difference is less. I have a leader in Kobe as all the other are fine with them not being the top dog (while all are great players). I have 3 players who can hit the three... and it was on purpose. Your defense is better... but my team's defense is damn fine, too. I have very skilled players. They are hitting their FTs, too.

I honestly think I have the better team.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:05 PM   #66
Charlie Sheen
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt
The evidence is from their own histories, which is the only evidence that we have about any of them anyway. Shaq quit on one championship level team, and then let a feud on another destroy the team. Hakeem insisted that Cassell be traded away from the Rockets because he didn't fit Hakeem's idea of how much the offense should run through him.

If you take the blank slate idea really seriously, then Shaq is prone to being out of shape and being swept, for years, until he played for Phil Jackson. Jordan is a ball hog who insists on taking any crucial shot and will not trust his teammates because he is sure that his one on four shot is a better chance than dishing off to anyone else, until he played for Phil Jackson. Hakeem is a great, athletic talent and a brilliant shot blocker with an underdeveloped offensive game. I don't think that's what you mean by "blank slate." But if you mean that the team comes together with everyone near their primes and confident in their abilities, then of course everyone will also be coming in with their play styles and their egos in tact.

And of course the question of Nash's defense matters. He wasn't even OK on defense. Instead, he was an outright liability. That alone should disqualify him from any team of this sort. And yes, Shaq will still be tough to guard. But the way that team is constructed, if Shaq is taking up the paint, then Hakeem is out of position, which allows for the possibility of help. And, on top of that, Shaq never faced anyone who was as tall and as strong as he was. Wilt was taller, stronger, faster, a better jumper, better shot blocker, and would present a challenge that Shaq never faced in his career. There is simply no way Shaq would steamroll Wilt the way he did almost everyone else he faced.

Shaq didn't quit on any team until he was washed up collecting jerseys in Phoenix, Cleveland and Boston. He earned his free agency. Owed the Magic squat. That's a wholly unfair criticism. The larger point you're missing here is that both Hakeem and Shaq won championships. They have the jewelry. They reached the pinnacle. Who cares how it ended? I didn't understand this exercise to be played out across 5 or 10 years.

I'm not disrespecting Wilt, but you sure are Nash when you've made the insinuation that a two time MVP would be virtually unplayable. You want to make it look like it would be free points every single possession he was out there. That's just not realistic. No matter how bad of a reputation he had as a defender, he was still an NBA player.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:04 PM   #67
Duffy Pratt
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen
Shaq didn't quit on any team until he was washed up collecting jerseys in Phoenix, Cleveland and Boston. He earned his free agency. Owed the Magic squat. That's a wholly unfair criticism. The larger point you're missing here is that both Hakeem and Shaq won championships. They have the jewelry. They reached the pinnacle. Who cares how it ended? I didn't understand this exercise to be played out across 5 or 10 years.

I'm not disrespecting Wilt, but you sure are Nash when you've made the insinuation that a two time MVP would be virtually unplayable. You want to make it look like it would be free points every single possession he was out there. That's just not realistic. No matter how bad of a reputation he had as a defender, he was still an NBA player.

In the company that’s being created for these improbable teams, two MVPs is not special. On Nash’s opposing team, Jordan has 5, Wilt and Bron have 4, and Duncan has 2, and Durant has only one. On a regular NBA team, taking Nash in spite of his poor defense could be a good thing. With most teams, there is a way to play Nash on D so that you minimize his liability. But the playoffs put that to a more extreme test, as you face deeper teams that leave you less room to hide on defense. I think that’s why Nash is the only multiple MVP winner never to get to a finals.

Last edited by Duffy Pratt : 06-14-2018 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:55 AM   #68
Charlie Sheen
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt
In the company thatís being created for these improbable teams, two MVPs is not special. On Nashís opposing team, Jordan has 5, Wilt and Bron have 4, and Duncan has 2, and Durant has only one. On a regular NBA team, taking Nash in spite of his poor defense could be a good thing. With most teams, there is a way to play Nash on D so that you minimize his liability. But the playoffs put that to a more extreme test, as you face deeper teams that leave you less room to hide on defense. I think thatís why Nash is the only multiple MVP winner never to get to a finals.

I hear you, but I still think you're taking it too far. Anyway it was a fun discussion to have

Can't really give much of a fair opinion on the team you chose. Clyde and Russell were before my time, that alone would slant my take towards elementally's squad.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:36 PM   #69
Hakeem Olajuwon
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Default Re: Who wants to do an all-time 5 vs. 5 with me?

I choose A.

I'll pick first. Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player I have even seen.
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