Does Any Perimeter Player in History Approach Peak MJ from 1988-1993?

[8Ball]

LeBron 4 MVPs out of 5 years. All NBA 1st and All defensive 1st.

2009-2013

[8Ball]

He's really the only one that you could compare. If he isn't it to some ppl, then that's pretty much it. No one else really compares in all around game. Like I said, offensively a couple of other players other than LeBron.

Although with the finals comparison, those Miami years he wasn't his best. His 2nd years with the Cavs, he posted up better numbers. But he wasn't great defensively. Miami he had better regular season numbers and imo, had his best play. He peaked in 2013. But with the Cavs, he coasted till the playoffs I think. But again, he also played a lot of the 4 in 2013 and 2014. So, I don't know if it even counts.

I feel like they are in the same tier tho. They had similar impact on their team. But as you said, MJ scoring is just too crazy. And he always brought it defensively. He was more consistent on that front. Like you can consider MJ to be better for sure, and I'm not going to argue. But you did say approach, and the only one that I feel like that could approach of a perimeter player is him. You can argue that he's a 4 tho with some of those years. But if not LeBron, who else? Legit, I don't think anyone else can compare. Maybe some offensively.

Jordan was great but his entire career was too short to compare with LeBrons.

11 All-NBA years vs LeBron's soon to be 17 All-NBA teams. LeBron going to have 14 All-NBA 1st teams.

Greatness measures longevity as well and Jordan has 0 longevity arguments.

[Kblaze8855]

Well in the gm survey in 1990 Magic was selected ahead of Jordan for player you most wanted to add to your roster and David Robinson was second. So I’d say it’s pretty easy to imagine a number of people ranked alongside Jordan in a peak for peak situation. It wasn’t unheard of to want other players first even then. Looking back on the whole career these things get brushed away. At the time in question? A few people might be picked as the best player in the nba over Jordan.

Things get a lot more unanimous over time than they are when they are going on.

Im not 100% sure you could have easily had Patrick Ewing for Jordan in a straight swap those few years he was going in on everyone if only for the big man advantage. You’d get him but it would be a process not a no brainer when he was doing like 29 a game and both had never won anything. The lakers definitely wouldn’t have traded you Magic for Jordan in 1988.

Jordan is the majority goat now by more than he was considered the best player in the league a lot of the years in question.

That said....ive never seen anyone better. But I’ve seen some close enough not to disrespect and say it’s not even comparable. Considering D Jordan was a better total player than Bird. I’m not sure he makes every team better than Bird does though.

Its not a “Don’t even bring it up.....” level blowout no matter what people think 35 years later.

[paksat]

wade in 06 and 09 was the most unstoppable player the NBA has ever seen ( besides shaq ), at least IMO.

so in those years, i'd say so but he didn't have the longevity obviously.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2016-present kawhi playoff stats:

10.9 BPM, 26% win share per 48, 28.7 PER, 7.2 VORP

[8Ball]

You don't even know the formula behind any of those advanced stats without googling it Kawhi stan.

Not 1 MVP for Kawhi.

[AirBonner]

Charles Barkley statistically was better than MJ on the perimeter

[SATAN]

There has to be a limit on the number of creative ways you can post the same thread over and over again

[999Guy]

wade in 06 and 09 was the most unstoppable player the NBA has ever seen ( besides shaq ), at least IMO.

so in those years, i'd say so but he didn't have the longevity obviously.

why?

[999Guy]

There has to be a limit on the number of creative ways you can post the same thread over and over again

And then dummy bunched the years together.

.

92 just wasn’t the athlete he was before.

93 Jordan was clearly past peak on both ends and was absolutely not better than Hakeem that year.

88-91 Jordan is really where the rare territory is.

[AirBonner]

85/86 Barkley was better than any version of MJ

[bizil]

Well in the gm survey in 1990 Magic was selected ahead of Jordan for player you most wanted to add to your roster and David Robinson was second. So IÂ’d say itÂ’s pretty easy to imagine a number of people ranked alongside Jordan in a peak for peak situation. It wasnÂ’t unheard of to want other players first even then. Looking back on the whole career these things get brushed away. At the time in question? A few people might be picked as the best player in the nba over Jordan.

Things get a lot more unanimous over time than they are when they are going on.

Im not 100% sure you could have easily had Patrick Ewing for Jordan in a straight swap those few years he was going in on everyone if only for the big man advantage. YouÂ’d get him but it would be a process not a no brainer when he was doing like 29 a game and both had never won anything. The lakers definitely wouldnÂ’t have traded you Magic for Jordan in 1988.

Jordan is the majority goat now by more than he was considered the best player in the league a lot of the years in question.

That said....ive never seen anyone better. But IÂ’ve seen some close enough not to disrespect and say itÂ’s not even comparable. Considering D Jordan was a better total player than Bird. IÂ’m not sure he makes every team better than Bird does though.

Its not a “Don’t even bring it up.....” level blowout no matter what people think 35 years later.

Great points! MJ is the best I've seen HANDS DOWN! But Magic, Bird, Bron, and KD on the perimeter ALL have elements to their games that MJ NEVER HAD. In terms of stuff like positional versatility (all four guys) and pure shooting ability from anywhere (KD and Bird 50-40-90 guys). When it comes to passing, MJ would rank 4th out of the five. Triple double ability, he would rank the same.

However I would still give MJ the edge BECAUSE he's the best blend of great scoring, great floor game (two way wise), killer instinct, and athletic ability. That doesn't mean a discussing CAN'T be had. BUT for me, only guys who can play the PF position in addition to their perimeter spots and have more positional versatility can be seen as potential competition. Bron, Magic, Bird, KD. Because I've seen Magic be TOO BIG for MJ to handle. And I know Magic is the ultimate triple double machine, can play damn near any position offensively, and has alpha dog cred scoring the rock. And Magic DOES make his teammates better. Still would take MJ as the better player. BUT I certainly would choose Magic in multiple different areas over MJ.

[r0drig0lac]

IF we are being technical, the guys like Magic, Bird, Bron, and KD PLAYED the PF position in their careers. And have that size in their games. Even though their primary position was PG (Magic) and SF (Bird, Bron, KD). However even if you include those guys, MJ HANDS DOWN is still superior. Don't have to think twice. He was a 10/10 in all these areas for his position:

Scoring
Passing
Rebounding
Defense
Killer Instinct
Positional Versatility (can play and defend PG, SG, and SF LEGIT at great levels)
Freak athletic ability


BUT the thing about Lebron is the fact he covers up MORE HOLES than any player in history. He has PF size and versatility in his game. For perimeter guys, IT TAKES somebody like a Bron, Magic, Bird, or KD (guys who have more positional versatility) to possibly overtake MJ.

BUT even in those guys case, they don't overtake MJ. And for guys who are strictly PG, SG, and SF in terms positional versatility, it's harder for them to have the edge on MJ. The guys like Kobe, Wade, Doc, Steph, Oscar, West, Zeke, etc. for example. If Bron had SOME MORE killer instinct in his game (not saying he totally lacks it), he would have what it takes to overtake MJ.

good post

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You don't even know the formula behind any of those advanced stats without googling it Kawhi stan.

Not 1 MVP for Kawhi.

Mvp is just a popularity contest. Kawhi should of won it in 2016 and 2017.

The eye test tells me kawhi is better then lebron and the closest to Jordan. His stats back up my eye test.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

8Ball, don't continue that debate with me unless you want to get embarrassed. I've seen your posts, you can't hang with me.