I think kobe is above shaq all time

[superteamtheory]

My bad forgot to put 2000 Finals*.
That is where championships are won, correct?

Shaq (paraphrased) after they beat Blazers: "We've won the 2000 championship. That was the team we had to get past." ... I can't link you to quote, sorry, but if you watch the broadcasts of the Finals, the commentators mention Shaq being Shaq saying stuff like this... Thing is, he's right. His Lakers were notorious to that point for choking in 2nd or 3rd round, looked like it might happen again vs. deep Blazers who took them to 7 games, then the comeback and oop happened and the rest is history.. Pacers climbed up a weaker East, were outmuscled from the getgo vs. L.A., would have lost in 5 if not for the wacky 2-3-2 format..

Also where Kobe absolutely crapped the bed.

...because of wacky 2-3-2 format, the Pacers had an opportunity to win 3 straight when Shaq was temporarily unavailable for Lakers (after questionable soft call for 6th foul), which means there ends up being a game 7 in L.A., which means it becomes (unlikely but) possible for Pacers to pull off the upset. ... instead, this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4

( ^ lol at them having to advertise NBA.com on scorestble ticker ... people only just starting to have internet access ... )

Doug Collins in broadcast: "This is Chicago's oldplay for Michael Jordan"... the eye test confirms, as well, youngJordan-like ability for youngKobe... now, how the rest of Kobe's career went from 02 and onward, yeah there are some things to question... but it's unproductive to diss anything from and including 1997-2001..

[superteamtheory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4

oh and i forgot to mention, that's coming off a sprained ankle...

[West-Side]

I love how people act like 2000 Kobe was some role player.
Go re-watch the Portland series or the Phoenix series; or parts of the NBA finals when Kobe carried the team on his back in over-time.

Lets not forget, Kobe got injured by Jalen Rose in game 2.
He played hurt for the remainder of that series.

In 2000 playoffs:

27.80 PPG on 50% shooting Vs. Kings (LA won 3-2)
25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks on 48% shooting in game 7 against Portland.
Hit 5 key buckets in game 4 against Indiana in OT when Shaq fouled out.

Without him, they don't win the championship that year.
Shaq was the man; the most dominant force in the league by a wide margin, but he needed Kobe that year to win the title. Of course, Kobe would have never won without Shaq that year; but calling him a role player that year is just laughable.

Role players don't produce 24/4/4 numbers and come up huge in big games and crucial moments in the playoffs. Kobe wasn't just a Ray Allen story of 2013; the man led the Lakers in 4th quarter scoring too.

[Bankaii]

oh and i forgot to mention, that's coming off a sprained ankle...

Meh, quotes from players mean nothing to me. Everyone pulls the team narrative, it's good PR and keeps chemistry.

And I'm not saying Kobe was ass the entire series. But 16 points on 37% shooting, that's role player numbers.
Shaq carried him in the 2000 Finals, because overall Kobe shat the bed, there's no refuting it.

[superteamtheory]

I love how people act like 2000 Kobe was some role player.
Go re-watch the Portland series or the Phoenix series; or parts of the NBA finals when Kobe carried the team on his back in over-time.

Lets not forget, Kobe got injured by Jalen Rose in game 2.
He played hurt for the remainder of that series.

In 2000 playoffs:

27.80 PPG on 50% shooting Vs. Kings (LA won 3-2)
25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks on 48% shooting in game 7 against Portland.
Hit 5 key buckets in game 4 against Indiana in OT when Shaq fouled out.

Without him, they don't win the championship that year.
Shaq was the man; the most dominant force in the league by a wide margin, but he needed Kobe that year to win the title. Of course, Kobe would have never won without Shaq that year; but calling him a role player that year is just laughable.

Role players don't produce 24/4/4 numbers and come up huge in big games and crucial moments in the playoffs. Kobe wasn't just a Ray Allen story of 2013; the man led the Lakers in 4th quarter scoring too.

The reason there is so much confusion over this is people forget the Lakers basically had no bench 2000-2004.. (well, 2005-2007 too and their 2009-2011 benches weren't that good, 2012&2013 back to bad / isn't there really..)

the threepeat starting 5 (meaning: Fisher-Kobe-Fox-Horry-Shaq) was supergreat but then what? ready to retire Ron Harper? stillcandunkbutold Mitch Richmond? Deven George? et cetera..
it was sortofa "2 man team" heavily reliant on maximum Kobe-Shaq production and by 2003 vs. Spurs that lack of depth finally caught up to them (then got exposed one more time in 2004 Finals) .. if Lakers have a great bench, then yeah, Kobe's part on those teams is less impressive, but it wasn't like that, Shaqball may have been half the team but Kobeball was 33% ... 2% HorryorFisherbigshotball and 15% the actual role players..

[iamgine]

granted shaq was better and more dominate on those laker teams they shared
the 3 finals mvp's back that up

but i have 3 things to say on kobes behalf
1. kobe is 6 years younger than shaq.. basically the difference between kyrie and lebron.. how can anyone expect this to be kyries team when they have the best player in the league in his athletic prime(same as shaq).. i guess my point for this is that people look at kobe on those teams and act as if he was in his prime, he was still young up and comer status while shaq was in his prime, shaq is the 100 million dollar man at this point.. kobe is sniffing his way there, put shaq on the 2006-09 lakers and whose team is it

2. shaq couldnt hit free throws... therefore you could not use him in late game situations because the defense would send a 50% shooter to the line rather than let him do anything.. thus making kobe the go to player for playmaking when you need a late bucket... tim grover always harps on guys you cant use when the game is late and tight

3. when these players werent together kobe won 2 more titles and gained two final mvps(taking away the fact he couldnt be the "guy") while shaq got another ring but played 2nd fiddle in the finals... also dont forget that shaq had those magic years before the lakers he also didnt win the title

both guys have 1 regular season mvp.. which is a farce and kobe has 1 more ring

ill say this, shaq had the higher peak... kobe had the better career

mj is better than both...
lbj is knocking on the door

People do compare them both at their respective primes/peak and I'd say most would consider Shaq more dominant despite less rings.

[JT123]

I think that OP is a dumbass.

It can be argued that rookie Shaq better than Kobe ever was. Rookie Shaq was worth 20 wins.

Shaq from 92 to 05 is a far better 13 year stretch than Kobe ever had so this myth about Kobe having a more successful/lengthy career is just nonsense that people perceive as truth because Kobe came into the league 4 years later and as a younger player.

Excellent post. When you really think about it, Kobe's longevity is massively overrated. Guy was a role player his first 3 seasons, and he has been irrelevant the last 2 seasons.
I take what I said earlier, Kobe doesn't even have the longevity argument over Shaq.

[West-Side]

Excellent post. When you really think about it, Kobe's longevity is massively overrated. Guy was a role player his first 3 seasons, and he has been irrelevant the last 2 seasons.
I take what I said earlier, Kobe doesn't even have the longevity argument over Shaq.

From 1992 - 2005; Shaq played an average of 67 games a season (total of 941 games).

From 2000 - 2013; Kobe played an average of 74 games a season (total of 1039).

In those year they achieved the following accolades;

Shaq

4 championships
12 All-Stars
1 MVP
3 Finals MVP
7 x 1st Team All-NBA
8 x In Top 5 MVP voting

26.21 PPG, 11.66 RPG, 2.77 APG

Kobe

5 championships
14 All-Stars
1 MVP
2 Finals MVP
10 x 1st Team All-NBA
11 x In Top 5 MVP voting

27.67 PPG, 5.71 RPG, 5.21 APG

- Kobe played more games and more MPG
- Kobe made more All-Star selections
- Kobe made more 1st Team All-NBA
- Shaq won 1 more Finals MVP
- Kobe won 1 more championship
- Kobe finished in the top 5 MVP shares more times
- Kobe has beaten more 50+ win teams in the playoffs from 2008 to 2010 than Shaq has without Kobe on his team for his entire career (92-97 & 05 - end of his career). That's a total of 10+ playoff appearances against 3 playoff appearances.

But yeah we can say Shaq's longevity was "greater".