Big Market Team Fallacy

[Kevin_Gamble]

I don't know why the dollar amount is, but for star players....being in NY over a small market is a huge advantage...huge. And its lasting....as in for the rest of their lives type stuff.

I have no idea of calculating it, but I bet the exposure leads to a pretty high monetary value...especially if they start winning.

It doesn't. Jeter makes like $5 mil per year in endorsements, probably gets to eat pastrami sandwiches for free for life. That's not huge...huge... territory. You think John Starks or Doc Rivers are making $15 mil. right now in endorsements? or even Ewing? Not even Amare makes that.

Sports figures who actually make huge...huge... endorsements? Other than transcendental figures like Kobe and Jordan, it's golfers and tennis players, who sign with Tagheuer and Landrover, while Amare and Melo advertise energy strips and prepaid phones.

[Sarcastic]

Deron Williams was livid that he got traded to the Nets, and had to be forced to get on the plane. This is a team that will be playing in Brooklyn, in a brand new arena, will be the new chic team to play for, and is partially owned by Jay-Z. Despite all this, he still won't sign the extension yet.

[DMAVS41]

Deron Williams was livid that he got traded to the Nets, and had to be forced to get on the plane. This is a team that will be playing in Brooklyn, in a brand new arena, will be the new chic team to play for, and is partially owned by Jay-Z. Despite all this, he still won't sign the extension yet.

because the nets suck. stop talking in absolutes. he won't be livid if they land another great player.

why do you think the jazz traded him? they traded him because they knew they probably couldn't sign him. why? because they are the jazz and had already lost boozer and just don't have the ability to retain all their players the way some teams do.

hence....just one of many advantages of other franchises. its fun debating facts.

[Rab]

To be fair, teams at the bottom like Chicago, Washington, LA Clippers at the bottom all have a lot of young players under contract on their rookie deals, including their starts like Rose, Wall, Griffin. When those teams have to re-up the young guys, you'll see that number bump up significantly. And the Clippers are just cheap. They never spend money, and probably never will, so it's hard for me to call them a big market team. NY just got through dumping bad contract after bad contract. They've been a lot higher over the last 5-6 years.

The Jazz were never a luxury tax payer until this past year, so that's a little flukey. The Magic are in a financial mess, and they are forced to be that way because they are trying to get enough in to keep Howard from leaving. It's not something they'll be able to sustain long term. Cleveland was in the same boat with LeBron.

The Suns were a luxury tax payer for years during the Nash era and that eventually cost them Amar'e. They'll be set back for years trying to weed out contracts and start over. Smaller market teams can do it short term if they think there is a slight chance they can win it all, but over the course of 5-6 years, the well starts running dry while larger market teams can sustain the cap hit better.

[Sarcastic]

because the nets suck. stop talking in absolutes. he won't be livid if they land another great player.

why do you think the jazz traded him? they traded him because they knew they probably couldn't sign him. why? because they are the jazz and had already lost boozer and just don't have the ability to retain all their players the way some teams do.

hence....just one of many advantages of other franchises. its fun debating facts.

I'm not the one who talks in absolutes. You are. You always run back to the Lakers, as if the Clippers don't play in the same building. We can go over the top 10 markets if you want.
Knicks - suck
LA - 1 team is great, 1 is awful
Chicago - had a decade of being awful, but got lucky to draft Rose
Dallas - great team due to a great owner
Philly - suck
Houston - suck
Washington - suck
Miami - we know the story
Atlanta - meh, they're ok
Boston - sucked for almost 20 years after Bird, then got a good trade from Minnesota, whose GM JUST SO HAPPENED TO PLAY FOR THE CELTICS!!! OMG WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!!

BTW, the Jazz actually got Boozer via free agency. They traded Deron because they NJ made an offer they couldn't refuse. The Nets were so desperate to get a star, they were willing to make a one sided trade even without an assurance from Deron that he would sign the extension. The Jazz got the better end of the trade BY FAR!!!

Also, ask any Bulls fan and they will tell you they would love to give Boozer back to Utah.

[pmj]

you have 3 of the 4 top teams as big markets....LOL...and you are taking a snapshot in a year in which some big markets purposefully shed contracts to get the exact players we are talking about.

and its not just money...as i have said literally a million ****ing times. its everything. everything that goes along with the desirable locations/markets. everything matters. you guys operate with these absolutes like somebody is sitting here telling you that no small market team can ever win.

not the case at all. its just a shame that people here honestly think a team like the twolves (lowest on your list) can compete with the a team like the lakers/celtics/mavs year in year out. they can't.

You are the one saying big market teams have an absolute advantage, when the reality is it's not that absolute.

Yes, some players go to a certain market for a reason, like Shaq (who wanted to do movies). But the reality is, it's not that big of problem (as has been shown). The team's that have the worst problem (like Toronto, who you keep mentioning, and New Orleans), probably shouldn't have teams.

The NHL has a hard cap, but the Florida Panthers will always be a crappy hockey team, regardless of the glitz of Miami, b/c theres no hockey fans here, and we have no god damn ice. No hockey star would come here, therefore, we shouldn't have a team.

Some markets may have some advantage (although I think it has more to do with the fact that some places shouldn't have teams), but what is your point? What are you arguing for? Or are you simply being devil's advocate and arguing for the sake of arguing, like I have seen you do a few times now.

[Joey Zaza]

you have 3 of the 4 top teams as big markets....LOL...and you are taking a snapshot in a year in which some big markets purposefully shed contracts to get the exact players we are talking about.

and its not just money...as i have said literally a million ****ing times. its everything. everything that goes along with the desirable locations/markets. everything matters. you guys operate with these absolutes like somebody is sitting here telling you that no small market team can ever win.

...and 3 of the 5 bottom teams as big markets...it indicates that the size of the market does not directly correllate to the amount they spend on players...which is your exact argument.

I agree everything matters. When EVERYTHING balances out, players go to a variety of places for a variety of reasons and there is no evidence that Big Markets have any edge in the area of player recruitment.

...and no one really knows what went on with Deron and Utah..maybe after 7 yrs locked up in Utah, the folks in Utah felt, Deron was going t ogo elsewhere no matter how much $$ they gave him. But no tears for Utah, Atl dropped him in their laps for 7 years.

[gasolina]

To be fair, teams at the bottom like Chicago, Washington, LA Clippers at the bottom all have a lot of young players under contract on their rookie deals, including their starts like Rose, Wall, Griffin. When those teams have to re-up the young guys, you'll see that number bump up significantly. And the Clippers are just cheap. They never spend money, and probably never will, so it's hard for me to call them a big market team. NY just got through dumping bad contract after bad contract. They've been a lot higher over the last 5-6 years.

The Jazz were never a luxury tax payer until this past year, so that's a little flukey. The Magic are in a financial mess, and they are forced to be that way because they are trying to get enough in to keep Howard from leaving. It's not something they'll be able to sustain long term. Cleveland was in the same boat with LeBron.

The Suns were a luxury tax payer for years during the Nash era and that eventually cost them Amar'e. They'll be set back for years trying to weed out contracts and start over. Smaller market teams can do it short term if they think there is a slight chance they can win it all, but over the course of 5-6 years, the well starts running dry while larger market teams can sustain the cap hit better.

[tpols]

you have 3 of the 4 top teams as big markets....LOL...and you are taking a snapshot in a year in which some big markets purposefully shed contracts to get the exact players we are talking about.

and its not just money...as i have said literally a million ****ing times. its everything. everything that goes along with the desirable locations/markets. everything matters. you guys operate with these absolutes like somebody is sitting here telling you that no small market team can ever win.

Dude, it's not going to work. I already tried explaining it to sarcastic about how location matters and he wasn't even able to comprehend the question[or he was purposely deflecting out of denial].

Scenario:
Does Deron Williams go to:

a) the nets w/ Dwight Howard

or

b) the bucks w/ Dwight Howard

He couldn't answer it.. tried flipping it to nets w/o Howard versus bucks w/ Howard.. which of course makes the scenario about the players on the team rather than the location.

If you look at a lot of the mediocre teams in the league in small markets like Denver and Milwaukee and Clippers[not small market but small fanbase/history] and Atlanta, they all have promising talent.. they're just missing that one star. You put Dwight on any of those teams and they are a top contender in the league. But why is it that Dwight doesn't even have them as an option? He'd rather play with an old Kobe in Los Angeles and not much else[assuming they give away Pau and/or Bynum to get him] rather than team up with the cores of the other teams I mentioned which are just as good. Why is that?

Why wouldn't Dwight choose the Clippers over the Lakers? They EASILY have better talent going forward... it's just the apeal of playing for the Lakers[much larger fanbase, more pristine/fame, etc.]

Why does everyone always make a big deal about players having 'big games' in Madison Square? Reggie Miller made a legacy on it alone. I thought location had nothing to do with how players' thinking.

[tpols]

Deron Williams was livid that he got traded to the Nets, and had to be forced to get on the plane. This is a team that will be playing in Brooklyn, in a brand new arena, will be the new chic team to play for, and is partially owned by Jay-Z. Despite all this, he still won't sign the extension yet.

When Deron got traded he wasn't headed on a flight to Brooklyn.. he was headed on a flight to Newark.

I wish this forum had a search function SO bad because I can remember countless threads where Sarcastic bashed the Nets saying Melo would never go to NJ over NYC because Newark is such a shitty city. And what do you know.. look what happened?

[Kevin_Gamble]

Why does everyone always make a big deal about players having 'big games' in Madison Square? Reggie Miller made a legacy on it alone. I thought location had nothing to do with how players' thinking.

Quick, name three non-Knicks players other than Reggie Miller who are known for having had 'big games' in MSG.

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...
...

Yes, none.

[tpols]

You are the one saying big market teams have an absolute advantage, when the reality is it's not that absolute.

No.. he's saying that they have an advantage but there are still other factors to consider. I can have an advantage in basketball being taller than you but if you're better at me at every other facet of the game, you will be better than me. Given equal skills though, I will have the advantage. Thats all thats being said.

People against the notion that bigger markets have an advantage like to go off on tangents on those other factors and ignore the actual topic.

[Sarcastic]

When Deron got traded he wasn't headed on a flight to Brooklyn.. he was headed on a flight to Newark.

I wish this forum had a search function SO bad because I can remember countless threads where Sarcastic bashed the Nets saying Melo would never go to NJ over NYC because Newark is such a shitty city. And what do you know.. look what happened?

That's why I said "will be".

I never said Melo would "never" sign with the Nets. I know this because I feared he would, and I was one of the people that was willing and happy to give up every piece possible to get him.

I said his first choice was the Knicks, because they are the more established franchise in NY, and will always be so.

[tpols]

Quick, name three non-Knicks players other than Reggie Miller who are known for having had 'big games' in MSG.

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Yes, none.

Reggie Miller
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant

Before every game, reporters will swarm these guys about breaking scoring records in MSG. But they dont do it anywhere else. Why is that?

You couldn't name me three arenas that three small market teams play in.. dont even bother responding because its too easy to google.

[gasolina]

Quick, name three non-Knicks players other than Reggie Miller who are known for having had 'big games' in MSG.

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Yes, none.

Is this serious? Didn't Kobe, Wade, and Lebron all had big games in consecutive nights at MSG a couple of years ago?