Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season with league and finals mvp

[LikeABosh]

That "YMCA" team was one of the top 5 defenses that year.

So Lebron made his YMCA team into a top defensive team. cool

[Dave3]

Good thing we have video cameras.

Yeah sure, but has anyone actually watched seasons worth of those guys? 90% of people haven't watched a single full Bird game, let alone enough games to make that call. Hell, people are saying these 50 games from LeBron isn't enough to make a judgement, and yet watching a couple of highlight videos is enough to rate an entire player's career?

[joeysms55]

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 more rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.

Bird also played a full minute less than Lebron.

Well you clearly mistakenly round off James average to make it look bad because this is his:

Lebron James: 27.6 pts. 7.2 rebs. 6.9 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

So your suppose to round it off 28, 7, 7.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dude you are generally pretty strong in your arguments but this argument of yours is pretty weak.

Kobe was #21-22(dont remember the exact number) before winning 2 titles without shaq poll showed this not yours but ISH polls but after just 2 rings and 2FMVPs and one MVP he is as you can concur top 10 or more like #7-8-9 player however after lebron wins 2FMVP and 4MVP compared to kobe's 2FMVP 5 rings and 1MVP he is below hakeem.

Please dont say he hasnt been in the league enough because he has been superstar and 1st team all nba than all those guys you mention including hakeem.
Hakeem ach. 2FMVP 1MVP 6x1st allnba
Lebron(of course again this is assuming he wins another title).He is sure to win another MVP if he doesnt get injured

2FMVP 4MVP 7x1st allnba

Unlike many other greats in top 7-14 range lebron has been a superstar since 20 his 2nd year.

So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?

[GOBB_Junior]

So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?

He's also greater than Kobe.

[Whoah10115]

It doesnt matter if he does or doesnt, Lebron still isnt as good nor will be ranked as high as Bird.

Like Dwight has as many DPOYs as Hakeem, KG and Duncan combined, and yet he isnt as good defensively as any of them. Awards matter little without context, same applies to Lebron.

It's funny how Howard is ranked. Howard is a better defensive player than Tim Duncan.

[gengiskhan]

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 more rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.

Bird also played a full minute less than Lebron.

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career

[arifgokcen]

So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?

Yes assuming he wins FMVP and MVP he would definitely be higher.

and this is not my opinion this is the criteria you set.Remember! If lebron wins this year he would have 2FMVP and 4MVP.You know who else has those kind of accomplishments in the history.

Let me see who else have those numbers
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Michael Jordan
or lets say 2rings and 4 MVPs

Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Russell.

Yes only those 4.

[Hank]

That "YMCA" team was one of the top 5 defenses that year.

And Wade anchored that pathetic 2010 Heat YMCA cast to a Top 5 defensive team that year.


Great defensive anchors can do that. Why are you surprised ?? OH wait.. because kobe is incapable of doing that only worrying about chucking shots and being a liability everywhere else.

[arifgokcen]

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career

Dude wow inflation

WOWWWWWW

This is the first time i am hearing inflation adjust.

I thought that was supposed to be pace adjusted though when you use universal criteria lebron numbers actually look much higher so you made up a criteria which is based on the fact that 80s is a better defensive era though the same player you are inflate adjusting for said today is a much better defensive era.

IRONY huh

[LikeABosh]

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career

What the **** are you talking about? The game is more offensive oriented today? Are you serious? It's not even close. Lets look back at one of Bird's MVP seasons in 84' The highest scoring team in the league scored 120 per game, the LOWEST scoring team put up 102. Half the teams in the league scored over 110 a game you dumbass. You didn't watch basketball in the 80's did you? Probably weren't even alive.

[chazzy]

So Lebron made his YMCA team into a top defensive team. cool

2007 Lebron was not a great defender by any means and they were the 3rd best defense

Why do people try to revise that year so much. Real Lebron fans don't even think he was that great compared to his other years, yet people try to use it as qualifier over other all time greats like MJ or Bird. Nobody was saying Lebron was as good as them in 07

[Djahjaga]

When you add in that LeBron's career postseason stats are superior, I think it's safe to give LeBron the edge. That's not even getting into the fact that advanced metrics lean HEAVILY towards LeBron over Bird.

There's one caveat though. LeBron is still in his prime. Larry career stats include when he was drifing at the end of his career. Obviously when LeBron is in his mid 30's his decline will bring down his career averages.

I haven't looked at the PER formula in depth, so feel free to correct me on this, but it always seemed to me that PER heavily favored rebounds, threes, free throws drawn (as well as FT%) more so than assists and steals.

Bird's PER suffers in this respect because of his low volume on 3PA (relative to today's game) and low FTA (highest 6.1, followed by two other seasons of 6.0), which I'm tempted to say was a product of his era (though I dunno how certain I am that fewer ticky-tack fouls were called then).

In 84-85 and 85-86, Larry led the league in PER with 26.5 and 25.6, respectively. Those would barely be top 5 PERs in today's league (mostly because of Lebron, granted, but someone like Garnett also had higher peak PERs than Bird). This demonstrates the changes the league has undergone in the way the game is played. And advanced metrics were, after all, invented late into basketball's history, as people began to realize the value of the three-point shot and the idea of TS% and EFG% arose.


tl;dr Advanced metrics are sometimes unfairly biased against players from the 80s and earlier, though there are a few notable outliers.

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron will be ranked ahead of Bird by the time he retires due to having more longevity. By the end of this season he will already have 4 NBA MVPs already surpassing Bird and I see him finishing with atleast 3 championships, it's only a matter of time before he surpasses Bird.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes assuming he wins FMVP and MVP he would definitely be higher.

and this is not my opinion this is the criteria you set.Remember! If lebron wins this year he would have 2FMVP and 4MVP.You know who else has those kind of accomplishments in the history.

Let me see who else have those numbers
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Michael Jordan
or lets say 2rings and 4 MVPs

Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Russell.

Yes only those 4.

No that is not my criteria. I don't use MVPs, don't even care about them. Allen Iverson won MVP over Shaq in 01. Malone won MVP over MJ in 97. Nash won MVP over Kobe in 06. MVPs don't go to the best player so why would they matter? You're going to tell me those players that won MVP were better than the player that didn't win? Hakeem has 2 titles and those two titles are a couple of the greatest runs ever. Lebron if he won again would also have two titles, them being not as impressive as Hakeem's obviously since Hakeem didn't have a Wade or Bosh. I don't see how Lebron gets ranked over him. Compare Hakeem's best seasons to Lebron's best seasons are a better comparison than using MVPs. Hakeem is known as one of the greatest defenders of all time so consider that when comparing seasons and the fact that Hakeem would have the same amount of titles with them more impressive would point to Hakeem being the greater player still.