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Old 11-20-2017, 11:09 AM   #16
ImKobe
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

You need a jump shot as a perimeter player if you don't have a closer on the team. Lebron was a streaky shooter but could get to the rim at will and still needed shooters & Kyrie to win.

Giannis and Simmons could do fine without a solid jumper if they can hit their FTs because if no one can stop them from getting inside you have to foul them and if they're good FT shooters they can still close games by themselves.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:15 AM   #17
PP34Deuce
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

In the Playoffs, you need a jumper and a respectable 3 point shot.

You take 2 players that are do it all and that court will shrink further if they can't shoot.

Lebron even in his 2nd-3rd year was a better shooter than them both.

If they had a respectable 3 ball, they could truly do what they want on the court becuase people would bite on the drive. Lebron has that step back 3 because even at 32, he can still get to the paint.

I can't predict their careers. Simmons has got an elite level talented Center that we pray can stay healthy for at least 5-6 years. He's also got shooters.
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

nah, Kobe was a shitty 3pt shooter and he has 2 FMVP's and 1 MVP
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:03 PM   #19
Real Men Wear Green
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

It's always better if you can shoot but if you surround either of those guys with shooters the offense will be fine. The only players with the necessary physical tools to keep either guy out of the paint are each other and maybe LeBron James when he feels it necessary to defend.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Do you know how easy it would be to stop an offense consisting of 5 guys that can’t hit a 15 footer?

Edit: ah, 3 point shot... well the point still remains... especially in today’s league... there is no way you will score enough to compete if nobody can hit a 3 UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ALL TIME RANKED DEFENSE *OR* utterly dominant relative to your season.

Last edited by Orlando Magic : 11-20-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
Do you know how easy it would be to stop an offense consisting of 5 guys that canít hit a 15 footer?

This is a nonsensical response. Imagine 5 Patrick Ewings on the court or 5 Ray Allens.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

The question is (essentially) can your star player that isn't a post C/PF be highly successful without a decent jumper. I think it can work maybe, but only as a co-star type player. Not as a clear cut best player.

Edit: the other co-star needs to be a shooter type, not another similar player or big.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Toine=MVP
This is a nonsensical response. Imagine 5 Patrick Ewings on the court or 5 Ray Allens.

In today’s league 5 Ray Allens would win.

5 Ray Allens would be shooting an open shot virtually every trip down the floor.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
In todayís league 5 Ray Allenís would win.

That team would be destroyed.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Toine=MVP
That team would be destroyed.

The math doesnít support it.

Ewing wasnít dominant ENOUGH to make that claim...

Shaq on the other hand was big enough to score almost every time... but even still Ray Allen is taking a wide open jumper on virtually every possession... Iím not sure.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:30 PM   #26
'Toine=MVP
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Magic
The math doesnít support it.

Ewing wasnít dominant ENOUGH to make that claim...

Shaq on the other hand was big enough to score almost every time... but even still Ray Allen is taking a wide open jumper on virtually every possession... Iím not sure.

Allen can't dribble all that well and is terrible running the break. He would not get one open look all game.

I'm not saying 5 Ray Allens versus 5 Ewings. Is that what you thought you read??? I'm saying 5 Ray Allens vs a normal NBA team or 5 Ewings vs a normal NBA team.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:57 PM   #27
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Ben Simmons and Giannis, absolutely. But you don't have to go that far. Just look at the best player in the league the last 10 years Lebron James who is not a good 3 point shooter to prove your point.
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Toine=MVP
THIS.

People anointing Giannis as top 10 (and over Kyrie lol) or saying Simmons is already a top 20ish player are getting so far ahead of themselves. Can they get there? Yes. Is it reasonable to assume they are likely to get there? Maybe. But they have a ways to go. Giannis is further along than Simmons as expected.

Everyone needs to be honest with themselves, take a breather and realize that experience matters (and will help those guys). A decent shot REALLY matters (and will help those guys). There are some young bigs who are super promising too and while they might not need to develop a shot, they need to prove things on the biggest stage. Until that happens, they aren't in the elite tier(s).

Closing late is the #1 skill in NBA. Without a shot or a terrible opposing coach, it's very hard to close effectively in the playoffs. Guys who can't close end up as regular season wonders or guys who need a closer who is as good or better than them as a teammate to win.

Giannis is a better player than Kyrie. Who has Giannis played with that's any good?

Kyrie's had his playoff success with an all time top 5 player, who is able to mask glaring deficiencies in others' games and his team.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:55 PM   #29
PP34Deuce
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Default Re: Do Giannis and Ben Simmons prove you don't need a 3 point shot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
Ben Simmons and Giannis, absolutely. But you don't have to go that far. Just look at the best player in the league the last 10 years Lebron James who is not a good 3 point shooter to prove your point.


I can't call the career trajectory of Simmons and Giannis.

It feels like health in players is more volatile then ever. Young players are getting maintenance days at 23-25.

I think Giannis has a scorers mentality to score 30+ while rebound 10+ and give you assists.

I think Ben Simmons will never be a reliable top scoring option.
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