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Old 02-03-2008, 06:31 PM   #61
Heilige
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Sharas
it's also not forbidden by the constitution - and therefore not unconstitutional or illegal, contrary to what you imply.


These programs are not Constitutional.. in other words the government has no legal right to take my money and redistribute it among the populace, no matter what good intentions said government has. And each time another one of my dollars is spent in such a manner it moves us one step closer to Socialism... and I don't want MY government to go Socialist.
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #62
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Sharas
so all other ways of taxing would be theft too? since state takes taxes to maintain police for good of everyone, that's theft too? how does that fit into your "survival of the fittest" doctrine?
shouldn't we abolish the state altogether then? give everyone weapons, and make everyone settle for himself? since, you know, "you're responsible for you, and no one else"?


The Constitution explicitly states what the government has a right to take my money for.. go read it and see for yourself.
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:35 PM   #63
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Sharas
1. that's the 18th century way of thinking. which has been disproven almost a century ago. ever heard of j.m. keynes? ever hear of great economical crisis in 1929? if that what you wrote was true, all economic regulation would be unneeded. all the economical boards, corporate legislation, consumer protection, ministries, councils, everything that connects state with economy, would be obsolete. which is obviously extremely far from the truth. take an economics textbook, you're just showcasing extreme ignorance here. true free market system is a myth that never existed in reality.

2. i beg your pardon? are you really serious by this? and how does this compare to above "survival of the fittest" passage? you just keep contradicting yourself.


What a sick attitude you have. I mean really? Is it so hard to realize that a society where everyone is responsible for themselves would be a better place for us all?

You really can't picture a community where nobody sits around whining for that handout because he/she accepted responsibility for themselves by providing for themselves?
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:36 PM   #64
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by wTFaMonkey
but right now. the standard of living is going down because of the countries like china. they are eventually going to catch up to us. our dollars are becoming weaker and weaker everyday and one day. the world will stop accepting american dollars as the reserve currency. too bad for us

BTW, china is great example of state's economy growing, and at a huge rate, while its citizens are dying of hunger.
welfare of the state and corporations doesn't mean necessarily the welfare of citizens, although it's probably a prerequisite. it's about finding an equilibrium.

thing is, you could argue that public health care right now, in this particular case, isn't the best thing for USA.
but people like heilige seem to think it's innately and universally wrong, which is false. or that it's contrary to US constitution, which is again false. or that it has nothing but cons, which is again false. or that it would stop you from getting the better service if you have money to pay it, and so on...
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Heilige
These programs are not Constitutional.. in other words the government has no legal right to take my money and redistribute it among the populace, no matter what good intentions said government has. And each time another one of my dollars is spent in such a manner it moves us one step closer to Socialism... and I don't want MY government to go Socialist.

again, if everything that government does would have to be written in constitution in exact words in order for it to be allowed, you'd have a thousand page document.
why is this so hard to get?
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Old 02-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Heilige
What a sick attitude you have. I mean really? Is it so hard to realize that a society where everyone is responsible for themselves would be a better place for us all?

You really can't picture a community where nobody sits around whining for that handout because he/she accepted responsibility for themselves by providing for themselves?

such community has certainly never existed in reality. it's called an utopia.

but, closest thing we had to that in history led to monopolies and children working 18 hours a day in coal mines. and ultimately to the great economic crisis.

didn't you say that humans are innately good and willing to help others? how does this compare to that?
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Old 02-03-2008, 08:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Heilige


Any time someone TAKES from one for the good of another its called THEFT!
IT IS A CRIME!

I agree. So lets give back all that land and resources we've stolen over the years! Lets give Iraq back to its citizens! Never thought I'd agree with you, but here I am! Bravo, Heilige!! Bravo!!

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What a sick attitude you have. I mean really? Is it so hard to realize that a society where everyone is responsible for themselves would be a better place for us all?

Some people are born disabled. Some children lose their parents. Or is that not included in any of the Milton Friedman books?
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:49 PM   #68
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Heilige
The BEAUTY of the true free market system is that if we didn't have so much government intervention the market would take care of itself. If you have a company that acts like ****, then another one will pop up that's even better. Maybe that better one is more expensive, but then people will be sick of that and create one that is more affordable and so on. It's the beauty of how the market works.

.

Wow...why dont you get past Econ 101 and get back to me...I wonder how long it takes the market to correct itself?? and why should we let the people suffer for long periods of time while it corrects itself. Im not for socialism but a true free market isnt gonna work for the majority of America.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:54 PM   #69
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

Also from my understanding its not totally socialized like Hilary's. It makes the price more afforable but it is not mandated. The idea is that every1 who can afford health care would buy it. So Barack is gonna make it affordable for every1.
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:03 PM   #70
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by reppy
I agree. So lets give back all that land and resources we've stolen over the years! Lets give Iraq back to its citizens! Never thought I'd agree with you, but here I am! Bravo, Heilige!! Bravo!!



Some people are born disabled. Some children lose their parents. Or is that not included in any of the Milton Friedman books?

OMG!!!!!

let me just phrase his WHOLE message in just 2 words

less government


thats all he was saying. or i hope he is just saying that
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:45 PM   #71
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by wTFaMonkey
OMG!!!!!

let me just phrase his WHOLE message in just 2 words

less government


thats all he was saying. or i hope he is just saying that

OMG!! you like, totally missed the joke!!!!!!
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:39 PM   #72
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by bada bing
thats the difference between a conservative and a liberal mindset though. Conservatives trust the people more. The mindset is to allow the citizens to make their own decisions. The liberals on teh other hand, have this notion that people are unable to make their own decisions and so the government must implement services for them to utilize.

If it wasn't for the conservatives killing people and making bone headed foreign policies, I would vote conservatives since I agree with their economic policies. But these conservatives are religious nutjobs. all of them, except Ron Paul.

dont think that "liberals" dont trust people to make their own decisions its just that liberals have a firmer grip on reality/ real life sitautions.

i got laid off after my company shut down 2 years ago and my better half was a couple of months pregnant, we lost our healthcare coverage. luckily i got a job pretty soon but if I hadnt what would we have done? ran up $30,000+ of unpaid medical bills and filed bankruptcy.

people will get healthcare one way or the other so why not give the middle class and working poor a realistic means of paying for it instead of sending them bills that they will never realistically be able to pay, which in turn probably costs healthcare providers and hospitals money which in turn causes healthcare costs to rise.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:50 PM   #73
JEFFERSON MONEY
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Default Re: Barack Obama's Healthcare Plan

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Originally Posted by Hurlyburly
Republicans healthcare plan's consist of making sure all white people get coverage.

Simple and blunt, but still lolable.
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