Northwestern Players move to "unionize"

[Sarcastic]

You say that like it's a bad thing.. NBA is the cream of the crop or at least it's supposed to be.. if one year in college , europe or the NBDL helps weed them out before they reach the big show I'm all for it

Even if it's illegal?

[gts]

Even if it's illegal?

It's not illegal, it's been challenged in court and shot down.. it's part of the CBA between the union and the league and thus deemed legal

The CBA allows all sorts of labor laws that might be considered illegal to happen because both sides agree it's the best way to achieve their common goals

[Sarcastic]

It's not illegal, it's been challenged in court and shot down.. it's part of the CBA between the union and the league and thus deemed legal

Was Nerlens Noel part of that CBA? He was not allowed to apply to the NBA, went to college, and blew out his knee.

Students unionizing is the first step towards future Nerlens Noels having a voice in decisions that impact them but not being allowed in the negotiations.

[Kblaze8855]

We really acting like colleges are just giving away money for nothing if their football/basketball programs dont cover the cost of all other sports?

Do you think these places are helmed by idiots? If it didnt serve a purpose it wouldnt be going on for 100 years.

A good sports team....one the community really gets behind...is the best money maker many schools can get. Not to mention the free marketing.

I live 20 minutes from Clemson. If you arent near a college town like that I suspect its hard to understand the depth of some peoples allegiances.

I know people with Clemson colored keys, who listen to clemson sports based radio, pay for deeded parking spaces near clemson to tailgate, and get in fist fights with South Carolina fans.

If you dont schedule clemson/SC fans off for a big game...they just call out of work. Ive been to games with 80 thousand people there, 20 thousand more outside, and every bar packed for miles around. The parking, food, and merchandising for 80 thousand people?

Clemson sticks its logo on everything. The licensing alone....it has to be crazy. I dont want to imagine what the food venders pay them every home game.

I dont care what accounting tricks places play to try to appear to be struggling. It happens all the time in and outside the sports world.

Clemson football is a money maker. And it generates so much loyalty and discussion that is pushes people to attend clemson and support it even if they cant.

People around here are fans before they hit the age of reason. 3 year olds yelling touchdown in clemson outfits who grow up to love clemson.

They know what they are doing.

And no everyone isnt Clemson or any of the big schools...the really big ones like Texas...whatever. But they arent fielding these teams out of the goodness of their hearts.

A good athlete is an advertisement on two legs. Be you Texas or Boonville Tech. Those teams exist for a reason.

The ones that dont generate money are there in the hopes that they will at least generate interest.

Its an investment. A business. But the only people not allowed to be in business are the pawns generating the money.

And as someone else said...even if you dont pay them....let someone else. Johnny Football should be the only one not getting rich off his popularity? Id sign some autographs for a fee too.

[gts]

Was Nerlens Noel part of that CBA? He was not allowed to apply to the NBA, went to college, and blew out his knee.

Students unionizing is the first step towards future Nerlens Noels having a voice in decisions that impact them but not being allowed in the negotiations.

Now you're just arguing to argue....

Hope somebody takes your bait but I'm gonna pass.. you asked a question and got an answer then changed the question...

[Akrazotile]

Now you're just arguing to argue....

Hope somebody takes your bait but I'm gonna pass.. you asked a question and got an answer then changed the question...

Nicely done, sir. You dispatched him quick and easy, and brushed your hands to signal finality. Very nice.

[Akrazotile]

Do you think these places are helmed by idiots?

Nope. Just attended by them.

[Jailblazers7]

But the point that Sarcastic made is important and its what I've been tip-toeing around in this thread. The people harmed by the 1-and-done rule are powerless to change the NCAA rules and influences the CBA. Of course the Player's Union is going to allow the 1-and-done because it is a valuable bargaining chip that costs the players already in the league $0.

And I was saying that shifting the financial risk on to players is a bad thing. Owners are free to not draft players out of HS if they choose to but HS players shouldn't be barred from the draft.

[Akrazotile]

But the point that Sarcastic made is important and its what I've been tip-toeing around in this thread. The people harmed by the 1-and-done rule are powerless to change the NCAA rules and influences the CBA. Of course the Player's Union is going to allow the 1-and-done because it is a valuable bargaining chip that costs the players already in the league $0.

That's why they're free to unionize. If the most talented players in high school collectively boycott the "play-for-free" system, it'll be changed.

Each group - The NBA, the NCAA, and the players - all have a right to protect their own interests.

Idiots like Sarcastic are too stupid to understand how the world works, and he thinks it's the NBA's responsibility to run its business in a way that benefits a bunch of kids they don't know more than it benefits themselves. The dude is a fool.

Let them unionize. Let them use whatever leverage they have. Let the NCAA use whatever leverage it has. Let the NBA do the same. The market will sort the whole thing out. Everyone else has no reason to take sides.

And I was saying that shifting the financial risk on to players is a bad thing. Owners are free to not draft players out of HS if they choose to but HS players shouldn't be barred from the draft.

What do you mean "shouldn't" be. According to what moral authority? You? If the NBA has the power to protect their interest, let them. If the players have the power to change it, let them. This isn't life or death. This isn't human bondage. This is simply professional business.

You realize that if the players union got all the things players WANT, the league would be absolute SHIT for fans? It would be unwatchable. Stupid fans always want to fight against "the system" when usually the system is the best option. They're just looking for a way to feel important.

[gts]

To the topic.. What a mess this will/would be to sort out.. I wonder how it would work?

A union obviously has to have an agreement with a sanctioning body/employer to operate...

you have so many different groups represented in college sports... There's the school itself, there's the conference it belongs to then the NCAA that oversees the various sporting events but not all of them...

this just looks like it would be a big mess... It could be years before the labor courts sorted out who the union would have a deal with add NCAA is already taking heat from some forces that would like to see it's power limited or dismissed altogether...

Does the union strike it's deal with the conference? the individual schools or the NCAA who has different deals with the various conferences and schools already...

Eeek

[Jailblazers7]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.

[gts]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.

They're allowed to because the NBA and the NBPA, the very same union these players will have to join if they want to play have agreed that there is an age limit to come into the league and join the union. It's negotiated and it's legal by the labor laws of the USA. It will be 20 years old if the NBPA gets the rookie scale contract changes they want in the next CBA negotiation.

You can say it shouldn't be allowed all night long but the fact is it is allowed, and it has been found legal when challenged in the past.

But once again this actually has nothing to do with the topic which has nothing to do with the NBA NFL MLB or any pro sport league

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, I mean I'm not arguing the legality of the CBA...it's just a policy that I really don't agree with but I digress. It's one of the underlying reasons for NO players wanting to unionize which is a why I kept bringing it up. Didn't mean to derail the thread tho so carry on.

[Akrazotile]

They shouldn't be allowed to based on the principle that people should be free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage (which is the standard that is strived for in labor markets). Just because the NBA is a business and will be run like one doesn't make the point any less valid. Nobody is bringing up the topic of human bandage or life/death so let's not act like I'm (or Sarcastic) is being hyperbolic here. This is just a discussion and the point he made is an important one.

They ARE completely free to sell their labor for a fairly negotiated market wage. That doesn't obligate anyone to take them or negotiate with them. It just means they have the right to pursue work. It doesn't guarantee they'll find it, and on their own terms at that. You make it sound as if there is some federal statute prohibiting basketball players from playing in the NBA at 18. THAT would be illegal. All the courts have said is that it's the NBA's right as a business to decide whom it hires.

Why should employees be free to work wherever they want but an employer isn't free to hire whomever it wants?

That's what I'm saying. This is not an issue to be solved by a third party's sympathy or pity. This is a free market issue. BOTH sides have the right to make their own choices. Neither is guaranteed anything. That's how life works.

[gts]

Yeah, I mean I'm not arguing the legality of the CBA...it's just a policy that I really don't agree with but I digress. It's one of the underlying reasons for NO players wanting to unionize which is a why I kept bringing it up. Didn't mean to derail the thread tho so carry on.

I'm still trying to understand how the college players would get it done... I looked to the Tulane sports law guy on twitter Gabe Feldman who's really sharp and he's just said it would be a long uphill battle...lol