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Old 01-13-2009, 11:54 PM   #31
Toni
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Trade everybody not named Bosh, Bargnani and Ukic. We are treadmilling. But if we can package anybody except those three players with draft picks for higher quality players it would be more beneficial than the draft. We will always be around 10-15 in picks and given our draft history, I doubt we will improve from there. I've gotten over Jose, a part of me thinks now he has his contract he will be injury prone for the next 5 years. Trade him and a 1st for Caron Butler and have Ukic start for the rest of the season and we will be a VERY competitive team in 2009.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESSEL15
Bro, all your posts seem to depress me lol.

Same. I don't even read Owyjibo's posts anymore. They always depress me as well and they are always negative and pessimistic. Makes me sad that I'm a Raptors fan sometimes.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Toni
Same. I don't even read Owyjibo's posts anymore. They always depress me as well and they are always negative and pessimistic. Makes me sad that I'm a Raptors fan sometimes.
I read it as I see it. I'm not some blind follower that thinks everything will magically end up alright just because I'm a fan of the team. I'm realistic and right now, as the Raptors are constructed, there is little to get excited about. Yes, the Raptors beating Boston is possible. Yes, Washington trading Caron Butler for the Raptors garbage is possible. But none of that is LIKELY. You guys can get excited and bet on the 1 in 100 chances while I'll go with something that is more probable.

If this was 3 years ago then yes, I'd welcome a playoff appearance and be happy with just making it again. Not anymore.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
Same. I don't even read Owyjibo's posts anymore. They always depress me as well and they are always negative and pessimistic. Makes me sad that I'm a Raptors fan sometimes.

He's probably one of the best opinions on the Raptors we have here, and while he may take a critical stance to the Raptors, it's really hard to blame him.

At this point, we traded our starting point guard, a 1st round draft pick and a serviceable big man with a good contract for what at the moment seems to be a bench player.

If Colangelo knew that Bargnani was always going to be a center, then the trade for Jermaine O'Neal makes zero sense, we could have brought in some serious talent at the wing position with those pieces, and the lack of talent at the wing position is the very reason we are mediocre right now.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:55 AM   #35
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

It's to easy to critisize that trade. Every Raptor fan over estimated the value of TJ Ford. Moving TJ was addition by subtraction.

So what did we give up, the way to long contract of a moody point guard that thought he was above the team, Roy Hibbert who essentially is a healthy Jawaii, being that he's got some playing time and Rasho.

Rasho was a fan favourite, and of course Q's. The question about this trade can't be determined yet. Of course it can if you hate Bargnani and Colangelo.
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:42 PM   #36
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by b4ball
It's to easy to critisize that trade. Every Raptor fan over estimated the value of TJ Ford. Moving TJ was addition by subtraction.

So what did we give up, the way to long contract of a moody point guard that thought he was above the team, Roy Hibbert who essentially is a healthy Jawaii, being that he's got some playing time and Rasho.

Rasho was a fan favourite, and of course Q's. The question about this trade can't be determined yet. Of course it can if you hate Bargnani and Colangelo.
The fact that the trade was made is not the questionable part. It's who the trade was made for. JO, like I said earlier in this thread, IMO has (when healthy) done everything that BC has asked of him. However, we didn't need JO as obviously Bargnani was BC's longterm choice. Therefore we could've been smart with those pieces and used them for a viable wing position. I'll admit that I was one who was excited about the JO addition in the summer, but it was because to me it signaled that BC had a "win now" mentality was putting the pressure on Bargs to get better quickly or else he would be traded.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Nobody thought that Bargnani was the obvious starting center one month ago. You have to remember that. Most people in this forum thought that Bargnani couldn't play as a C at all, and that he and Bosh are incompatible.

BTW, I always thought that Bargnani is a center. I can look for the posts if you want.
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Old 01-14-2009, 02:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Quote:
Nobody thought that Bargnani was the obvious starting center one month ago. You have to remember that. Most people in this forum thought that Bargnani couldn't play as a C at all, and that he and Bosh are incompatible.
Some of us still don't. But it doesn't matter what us fans think/thought. I would bet any money that Colangelo had Bargnani as the C for this team ever since he was drafted.

I liked the JO trade, I thought it was what the Raptors needed. But since the GM is moving away from that now, that trade has become a huge waste. Whatever you may think of TJ Ford, he did have value around the league and the Raptors essentially traded him, Rasho, and the pick for a stop-gap player rather than a long-term piece to pair with Bosh, Calderon and now Bargnani.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
It's to easy to critisize that trade. Every Raptor fan over estimated the value of TJ Ford. Moving TJ was addition by subtraction.

So what did we give up, the way to long contract of a moody point guard that thought he was above the team, Roy Hibbert who essentially is a healthy Jawaii, being that he's got some playing time and Rasho.

Rasho was a fan favourite, and of course Q's. The question about this trade can't be determined yet. Of course it can if you hate Bargnani and Colangelo.

You can slice it however you want. TJ's contract is 2 years after this one, not way too long. He had value to lots of teams. To say Hibbert is essentially Jawai when you've probably never seen Jawai play except on YouTube is a bit much. And it's not Hibbert, it's the pick that could have been any number of young players...Indy wanted Hibbert. And Rasho held his own and stayed on the court. Has JO added any more wins then Rasho? And Rasho was expiring this year, which would have given him even more value as a trade chip.

So we gave up a ton. And so many on this forum talk patience all the time. How long is it going to take to show the JO deal wasn't good? How long and how many games under .500 do we have to fall for people to want more from this team and the management. If Bargs is the C that BC wants, then getting JO to play 50 games at 22 mill per for 2 years to be is a waste. Especially when it has done nothing in terms of wins and losses.
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