Kobe Bryant scores 61 points against Knicks in Madison Square Garden

[OldSchoolBBall]

As a whole, I think Kobe has done well in the playoffs especially in the 3-peat, series where he averaged like 35 or so.

Kobe has only averaged 33+ ppg in four playoff series in his career, two of which were last year. He's only averaged 35 ppg in one series in his career. Why are you saying "series" as in "more than one"?

Kobe has averaged 33+ ppg in just four playoff series in his entire career. 33.4 ppg is Jordan's career playoff average (which includes numerous past-prime years). To this day, Kobe only has one playoff series in his entire career which surpasses Jordan's career playoff average in terms of ppg. But feel free to keep trying to change the subject from what you originally implied, which is that Kobe is somehow in Jordan's universe as a playoff scorer/performer.

[chopchop20]

C/s

People love to take it to extremes.

"So you don't think Kobe's the GOAT? then you must hate him!!"

Why can't people just be a basketball fan that calls it as they see it?

And if some of us have a certain reaction, its mostly to attempt to correct the ignorant fans out there. But as soon as one does that he gets labeled a "hater"... I mean.... damn shame.

It's not about being the GOAT. My problem is that people come at Lakers fans like we just sit around all day making up fairy tales about Kobe. Like everything he does is imaginary.

Kobe's place in history like any other is subjective. And yes, there will be a very small few who might say he is better than MJ. To me that's besides the point, cuz opinions are like a-holes.

I just try to shine the light on the fact that hey -- this guy is actually pretty good, he's done some really good things on the court and it's not make believe.

[chopchop20]

But feel free to keep trying to change the subject from what you originally implied, which is that Kobe is somehow in Jordan's universe as a playoff scorer/performer.

Show me where I made that statement that suggests that.

[BIZARRO]

Some people in this thread are outrageous in their comparisons.

61 (and 0 boards) against the D'Antoni, Phoenix style, run and gun, no defense as a trademark and almost part of their philosophy Knicks, is nowhere near the accomplishment of 55 in MJ'S 5TH GAME BACK from playing another sport against the Ewing, Starks, Harper, Mason, Oakley, etc. defensive minded Knicks.

C'mon, Kobe's great but get serious.

[chopchop20]

Some people in this thread are outrageous in their comparisons.

61 (and 0 boards) against the D'Antoni, Phoenix style, run and gun, no defense as a trademark and almost part of their philosophy Knicks, is nowhere near the accomplishment of 55 in MJ'S 5TH GAME BACK from playing another sport against the Ewing, Starks, Harper, Mason, Oakley, etc. defensive minded Knicks.

C'mon, Kobe's great but get serious.

I thought the thread about the game, tonight. Then I get here and see all this talk about all-tie greatness and the millionth comparison to MJ.

[Showtime]

I thought the thread about the game, tonight. Then I get here and see all this talk about all-tie greatness and the millionth comparison to MJ.

Maybe you should have come in earlier when Kobe was being called the GOAT scorer.

[chopchop20]

Accomplishments:

AI's total games: 874
AI's 30 point games: 344
AI's scoring championships: 4

Kobe's total games: 913
Kobe's 30 point games: 295
Kobe's scoring championships: 2

I'm not doing an entire career comparison, but the point is as far as scoring, AI may not have reached Kobe's peak, but he's scored more 30 point games, has more scoring championships, and done so in fewer games. Kobe has the edge in efficiency, but if somebody said AI was in Kobe's league as far as scoring, you disagree.

Same with Gervin. He has the points record (along with Melo) in one quarter. He has 4 scoring championships. He's done things Kobe hasn't done. Doesn't that make them comparable?

Now, if you don't agree they are in the same class with Kobe, then why is it so hard to understand why many feel Kobe isn't in the same class as MJ?

Your point is logical if you're basing your argument entirely on career stats which was not my intention. But if that's your intention, we could easily end this conversation by mentioning Mr. Chamberlain whose "numbers" trump all in this discussion.

[crisoner]

Edit - Your white text got me!

[OldSchoolBBall]

Show me where I made that statement that suggests that.

Sure. Showtime posted:

Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams? Why doesn't he have some of his most memorable performances against the best teams in the playoffs? Why can't he bring it when it matters most against the best competition? I honestly thought after last season's finals, this issue would die.

You said in response:

Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances.

Rather than admitting that Kobe is nowhere near the playoff performer/scorer that Jordan is (which he isn't), you tried to obfuscate and make excuses. You made it sound like Showtime would realize that they're not that far apart if only he could grasp "the totality of Kobe's playoff performances" like you have.

Again, Kobe has only had one playoff series in his entire career that exceeds Jordan's career playoff average (35.0 ppg vs. MJ's 33.4 ppg career average). Kobe's best single series average (35.0 ppg) is basically Jordan's 111 game, 9 season playoff average upon retirement in 1993 (34.8 ppg).

Tell me again how he's comparable as a playoff scorer. And if, based on the above, you concede that he's not (as any sane person would in the face of such overwhelming evidence), then please state so unequivocally. Thanks.

[CasterL]

this jordan kobe stuff takes the piss its neverending

im really anoyed i missed the game last night. beastage by kobe. still the best scorer and imo best player in the leauge. but their is no way that a rational fan can be serious when arguing kobe<jordan. its just not true. kobes kobe and hes the best guard of this era leave it at that

[chopchop20]

Sure. Showtime posted:



You said in response:



Rather than admitting that Kobe is nowhere near the playoff performer/scorer that Jordan is (which he isn't), you tried to obfuscate and make excuses. You made it sound like Showtime would realize that they're not that far apart if only he could grasp "the totality of Kobe's playoff performances" like you have.

Again, Kobe has only had one playoff series in his entire career that exceeds Jordan's career playoff average (35.0 ppg vs. MJ's 33.4 ppg career average). Kobe's best single series average (35.0 ppg) is basically Jordan's 111 game, 9 season playoff average upon retirement in 1993 (34.8 ppg).

Tell me again how he's comparable as a playoff scorer. And if, based on the above, you concede that he's not (as any sane person would in the face of such overwhelming evidence), then please state so unequivocally. Thanks.

Nope, not true and I don't see how you infer that. I never made this a comparison between MJ and Kobe's playoff stats -- that would not make any sense.

You seem to have a hard time comprehending that I can make a statement about Kobe that is independent of MJ. My analysis of Kobe's playoff stats is based solely on what Kobe Bean Bryant has done on the court.

Any kid with a computer and an internet connection can tell you that Michael Jordan has better playoff stats than Kobe -- that history is written.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Nope, not true and I don't see how you infer that. I never made this a comparison between MJ and Kobe's playoff stats -- that would not make any sense.

You seem to have a hard time comprehending that I can make a statement about Kobe that is independent of MJ. My analysis of Kobe's playoff stats is based solely on what Kobe Bean Bryant has done on the court.

Any kid with a computer and an internet connection can tell you that Michael Jordan has better playoff stats than Kobe -- that history is written.

You clearly fail at reading comprehension. I'll post the two relevant sentences again:

Since others are bringing up the subject, if Kobe is on par with MJ in terms of scoring, then why can't he dominate the playoffs like he dominates occasional regular season teams?

Because you fail to see the totality of Kobe's playoff performances.

Explain to me again how your response has nothing to do with (i.e. "is independent of") Jordan. You were answering a direct question about Jordan/Kobe -- how can it have nothing to do with him?

[Lebron23]

Kobe Bryant is the best scorer in the modern era.

[chopchop20]

That question was framed by Showtime -- he's the one who refereed to MJ.

AND if you look at my response, EVERYTHING that I said was about Kobe. Never made any comparison to MJ with regards to playoff stats.

[LakersLaLaLand]

From another thread which applies here.

Originally Posted by Diesel J
61 stands out more but in the same game tonight, Gasol put up 31 pts, 5 ast, 14 reb...

I would take Gasol's line over Kobe's line w/o blinking. I hate those one dimensional statlines

One is not separate from the other. My game opens up your game. And vice versa.

They each played off each others success.

Kobe's zero rebounds means what exactly? He cannot contribute in other areas. Hence an empty statline.

How about the 14 rebounds both Gasol and Odom pulled down. They had the glass on lock.

Kobe was pushing down court running the wing or bringing the ball up or waiting for the outlet pass upcourt. Or should Kobe play the post on defense guard dlee. Box him out. And have Gasol run as the front man or wing during transition.

Feed the hot hand. And the Lakers did. Isn't that it goes. If it aint broke don't fix it.

Do you remembers Kobes 4 straight 10+ assist games a few weeks ago

[Code]
Jan 21 @ LAC W 108-97 1 41:23 5 15 33.3 2 7 28.6 6 6 100.0 2 8 10 12 4 1 0 3 18
Jan 19 CLE W 105-88 1 40:44 9 22 40.9 1 5 20.0 1 3 33.3 1 5 6 12 5 1 1 1 20
Jan 16 ORL L 103-109 1 41:22 10 26 38.5 1 5 20.0 7 8 87.5 2 11 13 11 6 2 0 3 28
Jan 14 @ SAS L 111-112 1 41:38 11 19 57.9 2 3 66.7 5 6 83.3 1 6 7 10 4 0 1 1 29 [/code]

Versus San Antonio, Orlando, Cleveland and the Clippers. 10-11-12-12. To go along with 7ish rebounds and 26ish points.

He can adjust his game whenever he needs to(NOW). What do you need to win tonight? Kobe will do it. The guy has complete control of his game and he has a proper team around him.

Those former laker teams...where kobe was scoring ridiculous points with few assists are implanted in my memory. Why? Because Kobe deserved more assists than his weak ass teammates could muster up.

People were calling him a ballhog and his selfishness was bad for the team.

When the truth was the Lakers sucked. Specifically his teammates. None of them could hit a jump shot of layup if their lives depended on it. Kobe was doing both scoring and setting up inept shooters.

Pretend you are Kobe or not. Be yourself. You are one of the most prolific scorers in the league. Running your offense.

Option A: Do I shoot the ball? Or do I....

Option B: Do I pass the ball to Kwame? so he can brick a layup.

Option C: Do i pass the ball to an open Brian Cook? So this 6'10" shooting forward can brick it.

Option D: Setup up Smush Parker so he can brick it.

Option E: Pass the ball to Slava Medvedenko...so he can brick it.

Option F: pass the ball to a young sasha...so he can brick it.

Option G: pass the ball to a young Farmar...so he can brick it.

Option H: pass to aaron mckie...oh my bad we signed him to keep my bench seat warm.

Option I: I know....Shammond Williams can drain a shot. Nope. No he can't.

I could go on.