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Old 04-23-2007, 04:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Well let's see how Mitch will use this draft pick this year.

We got the 19th pick. We better get an impact player (Nick Young).

Nick Young and Jordan Farmar are best friends if you didnt know.
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Old 04-23-2007, 04:48 PM   #32
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
1. That team needed absolutly no players that should've been able to contribute at that time. None. They pretty much had it all.


Sure they did, which is why they signed Gary Payton and Karl Malone in 2003. You're right. The Los Angeles Lakers did have it all. If they signed Leandrinho Barbosa, he wouldn't get playing time because those positions were filled to the rim. Maybe Phil Jackson or somebody else saw something in Leandrinho Barbosa that didn't fit quite well to the Los Angeles Lakers. The fact of the matter is that they were stacked at the guard position and needed to get younger in the forward position.


Quote:
2. You always draft the best player available. Regardless of position. That's the unwritten rule. You don't want to be the next GM that ends up with Bowie over Jordan.


True, but at the same time, the Los Angeles Lakers already had four of the best players in the National Basketball Association: Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, and Kobe Bryant, so drafting the best player available wasn't probably the key issue here. They key issue was was probably not drafting the best player available, but the best player who would fit in the Triangle Offense game plan.


Quote:
3. There's no excuse. Mitch was told by everyone that Barbosa's the real deal. Ron Harper included.
You see, this is why Mitch is an idiot.


Please provide links to this claim.


Quote:
When drafting, he has his draft chart or something and there are certain players that he expect will get drafted at one spot.
For example IDK..Anderson Varejao will be drafted at 15. If he falls down to 20, the Lakers take him.
That's how Mitch works and that just shows his idiocy.


If Anderson Varajao is the best player available to fit the Triangle Offense and the team, then why not??? He provides energy, hustle, and a little bit of scoring.


Quote:
He did exactly the same thing when he picked Kareem Rush over Tayshaun Prince. Technically, the Raptors made that pick for us but Mitch expected Kareem to go higher. Kareem was dropping, Mitch took him. Without even scouting him. While they scouted Tayshaun and liked him a lot. But no.
Same thing with Cook.
He was expected to go top 18 IIRC. He didn't, Mitch was there.
Idiot, what else can I say? That's his way of drafting players.


I could be wrong, but I believe Jerry West was still the General Manager when Kareem Rush was selected to the Los Angeles Lakers.

There was a reason why twenty-two other teams passed up Tayshaun Prince. Look it up. Furthermore, Kareem Rush was one of the top shooting guards of the draft and everybody was making a big deal about it saying that Los Angeles Lakers have another "Kareem" on the team.


Quote:
4. WTF..that post? Penburthy a quality guard? LOL, hope that's like a "which one doesn't belong" game or something.


Mike Penburthy hustled. He was a hustler and a pretty decent player and a pretty good compliment to that Los Angeles Lakers team. If you had paid attention to his game, you would've noticed as well.


Quote:
The Lakers have gotten better with scouting lately.

Bynum was a great pick. So was Turiaf. So was Farmar, I admit. Although I didn't like Bynum and Farmar at start.
Love those picks now though. Farmar will be solid and Bynum can get us a nice player..or turn into a solid center although at times it looks like he hurts us more than anyhting else.

Barbosa pick was really a no brainer. An absolute no brainer.

If Mitch is so cluless, then I don't know what to say. They have improved lately though, maybe there's hope.

They messed it up with a Von Wafer pick though. Dude should've gone undrafted. #39 was a nice pick.
I was all out Ukic with 39. That would've been a steal. Wasn't that high on Monta but boy, what a pick that would've been...
Or they just could've drafted Chris Taft. Big men like that don't come often.


So yeah, there's improvement but some of those picks will haunt us for a long time, unfortunetely.


Could've, would've, should've. Whatever happened has happened. Let it go. Maybe those players who weren't selected didn't fit in well with the Triangle Offense. I believe Vakeaton Quamar Wafer was drafted based on his athleticism and I believe he did well in Summer League play, I could be wrong.

Furthermore, you're making a big deal about players in the second round. I'm aware of players like Gilbert Arenas being drafted in the second round, but in the second round, you don't really know. It's either hit or miss.

Leandrinho Barbosa is good now, and his skills definately compliment Mike D'Antoni's run and gun play and vice versa, but who's to say that he will do well with the Triangle Offense??? Maybe he wouldn't comprehend the Triangle Offense so well and the Triangle Offense will only expose his weaknesses??? You never know.
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Old 04-23-2007, 05:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

First of all, your writing style is annoying but I guess you already know that and you do it on purpose.
I don't really like punching my screen or my keyboard..but I sure feel like it after reading your posts..

Anyway..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakerRaider
Sure they did, which is why they signed Gary Payton and Karl Malone in 2003. You're right. The Los Angeles Lakers did have it all. If they signed Leandrinho Barbosa, he wouldn't get playing time because those positions were filled to the rim. Maybe Phil Jackson or somebody else saw something in Leandrinho Barbosa that didn't fit quite well to the Los Angeles Lakers. The fact of the matter is that they were stacked at the guard position and needed to get younger in the forward position.

The point is that they had it all which is why they should've gone with the best player available, not the player that was able to contribute immediatly because they didn't need that. In terms of now, they had it all.
Barbosa was a no brainer, the most talented player on board.




Quote:
True, but at the same time, the Los Angeles Lakers already had four of the best players in the National Basketball Association: Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, and Kobe Bryant, so drafting the best player available wasn't probably the key issue here. They key issue was was probably not drafting the best player available, but the best player who would fit in the Triangle Offense game plan.

Umm..on a team like that...with Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Fox, Grant, Malone, Shaq....you really would want to draft a player that can fit right in?
Bad tactics.
You go with the best player. Period.





Quote:
Please provide links to this claim.

Gosh, I don't have it. Why are you folks so freaking suspicious? Yes, everyone were high on Barbosa. I don't feel like looking for link from 2003.





Quote:
If Anderson Varajao is the best player available to fit the Triangle Offense and the team, then why not??? He provides energy, hustle, and a little bit of scoring.

Huh? I was just explaining Mitch's stupid scheme.





Quote:
I could be wrong, but I believe Jerry West was still the General Manager when Kareem Rush was selected to the Los Angeles Lakers.

And wrong you are. That trade was a masterpiece by Mitch. He traded Hunter and a #27 pick which was Chris Jeffries for Tracy Murray (exp. contract, nice shooter) and a #15 pick. A true masterpiece.
However, he gambled on Kareem..without even scouting him.

Quote:
There was a reason why twenty-two other teams passed up Tayshaun Prince. Look it up. Furthermore, Kareem Rush was one of the top shooting guards of the draft and everybody was making a big deal about it saying that Los Angeles Lakers have another "Kareem" on the team.

Those teams sure look dumb now, including the Lakers...because they scouted Prince and liked him.

Please tell me you're kidding...drafting players based on their name? That's a good one.

Bottom line, they haven't even scouted Kareem. It was their stupid scheme.
Draft a player if he falls down.





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Mike Penburthy hustled. He was a hustler and a pretty decent player and a pretty good compliment to that Los Angeles Lakers team. If you had paid attention to his game, you would've noticed as well.

Right, and I'm Mr T.





Quote:
Could've, would've, should've. Whatever happened has happened. Let it go. Maybe those players who weren't selected didn't fit in well with the Triangle Offense. I believe Vakeaton Quamar Wafer was drafted based on his athleticism and I believe he did well in Summer League play, I could be wrong.

Furthermore, you're making a big deal about players in the second round. I'm aware of players like Gilbert Arenas being drafted in the second round, but in the second round, you don't really know. It's either hit or miss.

Leandrinho Barbosa is good now, and his skills definately compliment Mike D'Antoni's run and gun play and vice versa, but who's to say that he will do well with the Triangle Offense??? Maybe he wouldn't comprehend the Triangle Offense so well and the Triangle Offense will only expose his weaknesses??? You never know.


How to let it go? Those things are killing us now. All bad choices are haunting us right now. It's ridiculous.

The same way we're talking about Barbosa now is kind of how we may talk about Monta Ellis next year. Not quite because there were no signs that the Lakers would draft Barbosa but how to let those things go?

The Lakers were terrible at drafting until 2005. Terrible.
They were terrible at everything. They still are.

About Wafer, it was a stupid pick. No one expected him to get drafted. Even if he got drafted at 50 or so, we could've traded for him, like we did for Pinnock.
But there were players at 39 that were pretty good.
Roko Ukic, Monta Ellis, Chris Taft, Gelabele, Ryan Gomes, Blatche, that Litvanian big guy etc..
All much better prospects than Wafer.
And the Lakers draft a guy that was supposed to go underrated.
Bad decision.

Some teams build through drafts. The Lakers are in a specific situation right now because they need to build for now but their choices throughout all these years have been beyond terrible
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Old 04-23-2007, 05:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
First of all, your writing style is annoying but I guess you already know that and you do it on purpose.
I don't really like punching my screen or my keyboard..but I sure feel like it after reading your posts..


Thank you for the compliment.


Quote:
The point is that they had it all which is why they should've gone with the best player available, not the player that was able to contribute immediatly because they didn't need that. In terms of now, they had it all.
Barbosa was a no brainer, the most talented player on board.


I think we might be misunderstanding each other. At the time, there was a congestion at the guard position, so drafting Leandrinho Barbosa would've been pointless because of the log jam at the guard position. The Los Angeles Lakers kind of drafted for need rather than the best player available. Maybe at the time, Brian Cook was viewed as a pretty nice compliment to the Triangle Offense and they probably wanted to get younger at the forward position.


Quote:
Umm..on a team like that...with Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Fox, Grant, Malone, Shaq....you really would want to draft a player that can fit right in?
Bad tactics.
You go with the best player. Period.


Throughout the Kobe Bryant-Shaquille O'Neal dynasty, it seemed like they kind of were drafting for players who can fit right in and compliment Phil Jackson's Triangle Offense.


Quote:
Gosh, I don't have it. Why are you folks so freaking suspicious? Yes, everyone were high on Barbosa. I don't feel like looking for link from 2003.


It would legitimately back up your claim.


Quote:
Huh? I was just explaining Mitch's stupid scheme.


I didn't really understand where you were trying to get at. You were kind of all over the place. Thanks for explaining that to me. I appreciate it.


Quote:
And wrong you are. That trade was a masterpiece by Mitch. He traded Hunter and a #27 pick which was Chris Jeffries for Tracy Murray (exp. contract, nice shooter) and a #15 pick. A true masterpiece.
However, he gambled on Kareem..without even scouting him.


How do you know he didn't scout Kareem Rush??? Was there an article about him not even scouting Kareem Rush??? Please provide a link.


Quote:
Those teams sure look dumb now, including the Lakers...because they scouted Prince and liked him.

Please tell me you're kidding...drafting players based on their name? That's a good one.

Bottom line, they haven't even scouted Kareem. It was their stupid scheme.
Draft a player if he falls down.


I never said they scouted Kareem Rush based on his name. I said that once he was drafted, people were saying that it's ironic that there would be another "Kareem" to the Dynasty.

Draft a player if he falls down??? That doesn't make sense.


Anyways, here are some articles:


http://hoopsanalyst.com/Transactions15.htm


http://www.insidehoops.com/amico-060304.shtml


http://hoopscage.blogspot.com/2002_0...e_archive.html


Quote:
13. Kareem Rush: 6-6 | Shooting Guard
The draft’s best pure shooter. Has game comparable to Allan Houston and Ray Allen. Needs to work on defense though.


http://hoopscage.blogspot.com/2002_0...e_archive.html


According to the Seattle Post Intelligencer, Kareem Rush was considered a steal in the 2002 National Basketball Association Draft and a potential star. Would you like a link??? I would gladly provide one for you.


Quote:
Right, and I'm Mr T.


Instead of being sarcastic, please provide some sort of rebuttal that would prove me wrong.


Quote:
How to let it go? Those things are killing us now. All bad choices are haunting us right now. It's ridiculous.

The same way we're talking about Barbosa now is kind of how we may talk about Monta Ellis next year. Not quite because there were no signs that the Lakers would draft Barbosa but how to let those things go?

The Lakers were terrible at drafting until 2005. Terrible.
They were terrible at everything. They still are.

About Wafer, it was a stupid pick. No one expected him to get drafted. Even if he got drafted at 50 or so, we could've traded for him, like we did for Pinnock.
But there were players at 39 that were pretty good.
Roko Ukic, Monta Ellis, Chris Taft, Gelabele, Ryan Gomes, Blatche, that Litvanian big guy etc..
All much better prospects than Wafer.
And the Lakers draft a guy that was supposed to go underrated.
Bad decision.

Some teams build through drafts. The Lakers are in a specific situation right now because they need to build for now but their choices throughout all these years have been beyond terrible


You're not mentioning anything new that you haven't mentioned already. I don't feel like repeating myself. Feel free to look at the previous responses I have provided. You already said the above quote in a previous post and I already answered you.
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

I love the extensive use of hindsight to critique mgmt.
We are always smarter and more informed than mgmt...3 years later.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

You know, I really like the spirited debate here... both Soccer and LakerRaider are providing interesting dialog...

I would just hope that we can stop making personal attacks and realize that at the end of the day, we are Laker fans and ultimately want the same thing... something the Lakers are accustomed to... a championship title!



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Old 04-23-2007, 10:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurpleTwo
I love the extensive use of hindsight to critique mgmt.
We are always smarter and more informed than mgmt...3 years later.
very true, and if you look at the draft as a whole you'll see that many players never live up to the hype, try as a GM might drafting in any sport is not an exact science, with the NBA and having only two picks to use (generally) it's even more glaring if a player does not live up to his place...

look at some of Wests picks with the lakers and the Grizzlies, he's had some real bombs yet he very rarely is is taken to task for his picks, if west picks the guy and he doesn't live up to expectations it's the players fault, if mitch makes a choice and the player doesn't perform it's mitch's fault...
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:56 PM   #38
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
very true, and if you look at the draft as a whole you'll see that many players never live up to the hype, try as a GM might drafting in any sport is not an exact science, with the NBA and having only two picks to use (generally) it's even more glaring if a player does not live up to his place...

look at some of Wests picks with the lakers and the Grizzlies, he's had some real bombs yet he very rarely is is taken to task for his picks, if west picks the guy and he doesn't live up to expectations it's the players fault, if mitch makes a choice and the player doesn't perform it's mitch's fault...


True. Good post.
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:36 AM   #39
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
very true, and if you look at the draft as a whole you'll see that many players never live up to the hype, try as a GM might drafting in any sport is not an exact science, with the NBA and having only two picks to use (generally) it's even more glaring if a player does not live up to his place...

look at some of Wests picks with the lakers and the Grizzlies, he's had some real bombs yet he very rarely is is taken to task for his picks, if west picks the guy and he doesn't live up to expectations it's the players fault, if mitch makes a choice and the player doesn't perform it's mitch's fault...

exactly. and what about the opposite. Mitch was heavily criticized for taking Bynum (awkward, a true project), yet 2 years later he is our best trading asset. so does anyone with their remarkable hindsight say anything about that?
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:16 AM   #40
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

I didn't want Bynum, I wanted to trade that pick.
I tell it like it is, why lie?
I also didn't want Farmar. I wanted Collins or Alex Johnson.
Didn't want Sasha but Varejao.
Didn't want Cook but Barbosa.
Didn't want Luke but don't remember who I wanted
Don't remember who I wanted instead of Rush.
All I remember is that I wanted Turiaf.

That's about it.

It's not hindsight but whatever, make that an apology for the Lakers awful management.
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:16 AM   #41
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

I remember reading in Phil's book about how he asked Mitch to draft runners and jumpers in the offseason before the Malone/Payton season.

And he was disappointed when all he got was an unathletic Luke and I forgot the other.

So it was not necessarily best player to fit the triangle or best player available, they had a need and a void to fill. We didn't do either.
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:33 AM   #42
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Default Re: Watching Barbosa and Cook makes me wanna punch Mitch in the face...

I am not trying to be stupid but you know who picks great talent is the Chargers GM, there was 10 pro bowlers on the Chargers last year, and AJ Smith(Chargers GM) drafted 7 or 8 of those players. He is great at noticing talent, I just wished that Mitch was like AJ.

Last edited by Cool : 04-24-2007 at 02:46 AM.
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