Is Bruce Lee the greatest fighter who ever lived?

[andgar923]

Considering they've never seen him actually fight, I'm assuming they are talking about his physical attributes. They are saying if he actually trained to fight in tournaments, then he was probably good enough to become a champion. And he's talking about a Karate champion... not a full-contact fighter in any discipline.

You did say something similar to this, but then you also stated:

"But I wouldn't put it past him to beat the shit out of most fighters pro or not."


So which is it?

That goes along with what most of them believe. If given the time to train, he had the knowledge and the attributes to beat the shit out of most fighters.

Not sure why that's hard to believe.

[bmd]

That's acceptable.

I also believe that he was insecure, people that are usually as brash and cocky as Lee are usually the most insecure. But that's also what drove him to train so hard and surround himself with the fighters he did.

But then again, there's those that have stated he could back up his claims.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The OP is deadset at dismissing anything and everything that sheds him in a positive light, yet highlighting everything and anything that fit his agenda.

A perfect example of this lies in the quote he posted. He highlights the part that mentions his insecurity, but fails to acknowledge the fact that some of these people legitimately respected him.

That isn't true at all. If I really wanted to cherry-pick quotes, I would have just left that part out.

But I didn't, because I wanted to post what he actually said.

I'm not dismissing everything that shows him in a positive light. We are strictly talking about his ability as a FIGHTER. And considering he isn't the fighter people make him out as, and I'm trying to show that, of course most of what I say is going to be "negative" according to your point of view.

If you want to talk about other aspects of martial arts in regards to Bruce Lee, it would be much more positive.

But as far as his "physical feats" and fighting ability go, I'm trying to bring you and some others in this thread back to reality.

[bmd]

That goes along with what most of them believe. If given the time to train, he had the knowledge and the attributes to beat the shit out of most fighters.

Not sure why that's hard to believe.

That is quite a jump. Bob Wall is talking about non-contact karate here... not full-contact mixed martial arts fights.

We have no idea how Bruce would react to getting hit in the face and being put in certain positions. Some people mentally break at certain points in a real fight, and there is no way to emulate that without getting in a fight. Some people tire or burn themselves out too fast in a fight. Some people get away with things in "points" fighting that they could never get away with in a real fight.

It is difficult to explain, but there are certain things that you can't emulate even in sparring.

There are some people who are like gods in the gym and in sparring, and are completely average in actual competition because of the intangibles that can't be measured in the gym.

Basically, we have no idea how good of a fighter Bruce Lee WOULD have been.

[DonDadda59]

That's acceptable.

I also believe that he was insecure, people that are usually as brash and cocky as Lee are usually the most insecure. But that's also what drove him to train so hard and surround himself with the fighters he did.

But then again, there's those that have stated he could back up his claims.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The OP is deadset at dismissing anything and everything that sheds him in a positive light, yet highlighting everything and anything that fit his agenda.

A perfect example of this lies in the quote he posted. He highlights the part that mentions his insecurity, but fails to acknowledge the fact that some of these people legitimately respected him.

Yeah, there's no question that Lee was a superb athlete and would've been a fantastic fighter had he focused his energy solely on combat instead of movie cameras. And his impact on the world of martial arts, combat sports, and film is undeniable. But I thought the issue here was whether or not he should be considered the 'GOAT' fighter... and that's just ridiculous IMO. Honestly, don't think I've ever heard anyone actually make the claim that he was the greatest fighter to ever live.

Just doesn't make any sense. Where exactly would that idea even come from, 'Enter the Dragon'?

Plus I think the OP brought up people debating who would win in a fight between Lee and Mike Tyson. Da Fuq? Tyson was a 220-230 lb heavyweight professional boxer and Lee was a 135 lb professional actor. If Tyson in his prime couldn't beat an actor who weighed 90-100 lbs less than him, I'd say he was in the wrong line of work. That's just plain stupid

[magictricked]

Chuck Norris on Bruce Lee

[QUOTE]Many have opined about the answer. Some even indicted what I haven

[bmd]

Yeah, there's no question that Lee was a superb athlete and would've been a fantastic fighter had he focused his energy solely on combat instead of movie cameras. And his impact on the world of martial arts, combat sports, and film is undeniable. But I thought the issue here was whether or not he should be considered the 'GOAT' fighter... and that's just ridiculous IMO. Honestly, don't think I've ever heard anyone actually make the claim that he was the greatest fighter to ever live.

Just doesn't make any sense. Where exactly would that idea even come from, 'Enter the Dragon'?

Plus I think the OP brought up people debating who would win in a fight between Lee and Mike Tyson. Da Fuq? Tyson was a 220-230 lb heavyweight professional boxer and Lee was a 135 lb professional actor. If Tyson in his prime couldn't beat an actor who weighed 90-100 lbs less than him, I'd say he was in the wrong line of work. That's just plain stupid

I guess you just haven't run into the right people. Go on Youtube on Bruce Lee videos and you will constantly see people saying how Bruce Lee would have destroyed all these different people.

Just type into Google "Bruce Lee vs. Mike Tyson". Watch how many results you get.

Here is the second result on Google:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5163251AASsYS9


Here is every single response:

Bruce lee vs Mike tyson?

Brickfists: "I'm the biggest Mike Tyson fan you'll ever know, but Bruce Lee would kill him even if it were under boxing rules. [url]http://www.wiitalk.co.uk/forums/wii-brea

[DonDadda59]

People are idiots, what's new? I stopped reading when the first responder said Lee would win in a boxing match. That'd be a sight to see, a 135 lb actor beating the heavyweight champion of the world, one of the hardest hitting fighters in history.

Manny Pacquiao is roughly the same size Lee was and he would've punched a hole in Bruce's face inside of 1 round.

How funny would it be if in 30 years or so, people actually believe the bullshit people make up about Chuck Norris today? Wouldn't surprise me, people believe more ridiculous stories than that...

[Jackass18]

How funny would it be if in 30 years or so, people actually believe the bullshit people make up about Chuck Norris today? Wouldn't surprise me, people believe more ridiculous stories than that...

Jet Li, JVCD, Steven Seagal, Chuck Norris, and Jackie Chan are the greatest fighters of our era.

[DonDadda59]

Jet Li, JVCD, Steven Seagal, Chuck Norris, and Jackie Chan are the greatest fighters of our era.

The one fighter to rule them all

[spree43]

I think many people including martial artists who train casually or don't spar fail to understand the depth of martial arts.

You can say that Bruce Lee trained in grappling and say he knew how to do an arm bar or rear naked choke, but its not in knowing the technique its in 1000s of repetitions.

There are many martial arts out there that are great for self defence against an untrained opponent and if that is your goal all the best to you and you can achieve it through those martial arts.

However, if you think that you can arm bar someone who trains in brazilian jiu jitsu just because you drilled it 15 times at practice, you have another thing coming. Someone who trains bjj has had someone try to arm bar them 100s of times before they even get passed white belt. Its the same with boxing and striking, they've spent 100s of hours sparring and drilling their techniques so you aren't going to catch their punch and twist their wrist.

Bruce Lee was incredible hard working and loved martial arts. He had a good "physique" (not that I understand how that relates to martial arts). He trained a lot at kicking and striking, so I'd assume his stand up was decent and he knew a few grappling techniques.

He also suffered from the same problem as many martial artists of that time, that being the lack of understanding of how effective grappling is.

There is no doubt that he would have trained bjj had he been around in the 90s when it exploded because he had a great mind for it and was athletic. But its kind of disrespectful to those who have spent 100s of hours of hard sparring to think that Bruce Lee would last one minute on the ground against any black belt in bjj. Or to say that if it was more popular then he would have been great at it. Because its takes 100 of hours of practice no matter how athletically gifted you are, so its kind of silly to just jump to saying he would have endured all of that and been great.

I also think its funny when guys say "this guy is a street fighter, he'd beat guys in a street fight but not in a sport fight".

Honestly, anyone who ranks Bruce Lee in top 100 fighters of all time is showing a huge lack of understanding of fighting and martial arts.

However, if we are ranking the most influential martial artists, he will probably be number one, because he made martial arts famous in the western world.

[D-Wade316]

To be fair, I think 50 Cent also won a gold gloves championship (unconfirmed) but no one in their right mind is going to say he is the greatest fighter ever because of that. And if there's any martial artist out there whose legend is even more outlandish than Lee's, it's his master Y/Ip Man. You ever see the movies about his 'life'?

Yeah.

[bmd]

I think many people including martial artists who train casually or don't spar fail to understand the depth of martial arts.

You can say that Bruce Lee trained in grappling and say he knew how to do an arm bar or rear naked choke, but its not in knowing the technique its in 1000s of repetitions.

There are many martial arts out there that are great for self defence against an untrained opponent and if that is your goal all the best to you and you can achieve it through those martial arts.

However, if you think that you can arm bar someone who trains in brazilian jiu jitsu just because you drilled it 15 times at practice, you have another thing coming. Someone who trains bjj has had someone try to arm bar them 100s of times before they even get passed white belt. Its the same with boxing and striking, they've spent 100s of hours sparring and drilling their techniques so you aren't going to catch their punch and twist their wrist.

Bruce Lee was incredible hard working and loved martial arts. He had a good "physique" (not that I understand how that relates to martial arts). He trained a lot at kicking and striking, so I'd assume his stand up was decent and he knew a few grappling techniques.

He also suffered from the same problem as many martial artists of that time, that being the lack of understanding of how effective grappling is.

There is no doubt that he would have trained bjj had he been around in the 90s when it exploded because he had a great mind for it and was athletic. But its kind of disrespectful to those who have spent 100s of hours of hard sparring to think that Bruce Lee would last one minute on the ground against any black belt in bjj. Or to say that if it was more popular then he would have been great at it. Because its takes 100 of hours of practice no matter how athletically gifted you are, so its kind of silly to just jump to saying he would have endured all of that and been great.

I also think its funny when guys say "this guy is a street fighter, he'd beat guys in a street fight but not in a sport fight".

Honestly, anyone who ranks Bruce Lee in top 100 fighters of all time is showing a huge lack of understanding of fighting and martial arts.

However, if we are ranking the most influential martial artists, he will probably be number one, because he made martial arts famous in the western world.

These are my thoughts exactly.

One of the reasons I strongly dislike all of the myths about Bruce Lee is that it makes it seem like all of the other great martial artists out there are automatically inferior, and nobody can live up to Bruce.

That would be bad enough if he was actually proven, but it's even worse considering the things people base this off of... pure nonsense and speculation.

Everything you said from top to bottom, I 100% agree with.